# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/481 "2019-04-30T18:52:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t know about the books, but please explain where in the show it is explained that it can’t be melted and recast by normal means, when the only scene in the show where this issue is dealt with precisely shows it being melted down and recast with no indication that it’s not “by normal means”. It’s not “by normal means” to melt down a sword and pour the molten metal into a mold. That only happens in fantasy stories, anyway. In real life, you’d end up with a garbage sword if you did that. So, really, no rules about real-life swordsmithing apply here. And there’s nothing about that scene that tells you _how_ Valyrian steel swords are made or can be remade. It’s not a training video. It doesn’t purport to show you exactly how things are done. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/482 "2019-04-30T18:57:44Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > On rewatching the cavalry sequence, I’m a little surprised the Dothraki were down with having their weapons flame up, considering what they thought about “witches” in S1 The Dothraki love their Mother of Dragons, especially after she burned all their other chieftains to death. They seem to be totally OK with the whole witchcraft thing (those who are still alive, anyway). > [@Omniscient](#): > > I seriously don’t know what you’re on about here. It’s both show and book canon that you can’t just melt down Valyrian Steel and reuse it. If you don’t like it call HBO or GRRM. No books, dude. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Also, a handy rule for Giants: If your squished victim has something sharp and is still wriggling around, you really shouldn’t put it up to your eye to get a really good look at it. > > I mean, that’s Gianting 101. Huh. We didn’t get around to that until the advanced course - I think it was a 300-level seminar. > [@silenus](#): > > …Drogon makes a few demonstration passes opposite the Gate of the Gods, staying out of range of the walls and strafing targets of opportunity. Get a little panic going. When everybody is focused on that, Raegal swoops in low over the bay and melts the battlements on that side of the Red Keep. Do this at night to keep any anti-dragon fire to a minimum. Then both dragons can sweep in unopposed to blast the Red Keep into slag. Night attacks against field armies would be very effective as well. Preach it! > [@by-tor](#): > > …So if Jon was not the destined killer of the NK, why was he resurrected? To unite the armies?.. To ride a dragon, to fight alongside Dany, to bring the North under her sway, and maybe to give her babies and/or co-rule with her? We don’t know yet. > [@zbuzz](#): > > Maisie Williams during an interview on what happened after the table read where she first learned Arya would be the one to kill the Night King. > > “And then I told my boyfriend and he was like, ‘Mmm, should be Jon though really, shouldn’t it?” > > Oof. A girl can always find a more supportive boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/483 "2019-04-30T19:01:43Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I think the intro sequence is just a callback to Cersei and Qyburn testing the new ballista on the old dragon skull. Correct. My impression at the time was that they were storing it in a basement to keep it a secret. They actually used it in the open field at the battle of Roseroad (Season 7, I think) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/484 "2019-04-30T19:02:51Z")
Valyrian steel swords are basically +3 vorpal swords. Unless someone on the show says “hey, we can just melt it down and make it into arrowheads or coat our spears with it,” then that’s not an option. There’s no reason to believe that they are analogous to Damascus steel swords. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/485 "2019-04-30T19:03:49Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A girl can always find a more supportive boyfriend. Ha! But now I can clearly see the last scene of Game of Thrones. _Sansa: But who will sit on the Iron Throne? Arya: No one…_ ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/486 "2019-04-30T19:04:42Z")
Some military analysis of “Team Alive’s” strategy in the battle [here](https://slate.com/culture/2019/04/battle-winterfell-military-analysis-tactics.html). It wasn’t quite as bad as we might think. A lot of the seemingly bad decisions come down to low-odds gambles in the absence of better choices. > [@](#): > > Team Alive knew enough about Team Dead to guess that the Dothraki faced a kind of infantry that they had never encountered before; one without fear and thus invulnerable to shock and flanking. Moreover, in the dark, the Dothraki probably could not even identify the enemy flank. Although it’s not clear that Team Alive had a well-thought out plan for the cavalry charge, it may have believed that it could take advantage of the lack of discipline of Team Dead (which did not fight in tight phalanxes or with standardized weapons) in order to reach and attack the “middle management” of White Walkers. Alexander the Great employed a variant of this strategy at the Battle of Gaugamela. And as for fighting outside Winterfell instead of staying within its walls: > [@](#): > > We should be clear here about Team Alive’s strategy; it needed to induce a fight in order to avoid the threat of a prolonged siege. With horses, dragons, and lots of infantry, Team Alive would consume food at a much greater rate than Team Dead, which, uniquely among fighting forces, wouldn’t consume food at all. Team Alive wanted to lure Team Dead into battle before the gates of Winterfell because it wanted to either destroy the Night King’s army or the Night King himself. This meant accepting battle under disadvantageous circumstances, including darkness. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/487 "2019-04-30T19:06:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s not “by normal means” to melt down a sword and pour the molten metal into a mold. That only happens in fantasy stories, anyway. In real life, you’d end up with a garbage sword if you did that. So, really, no rules about real-life swordsmithing apply here. When I see that in a move (the Uruks made their weapons that way too) I just assume it’s to help get the right volume of metal committed to the blade–it’ll get hammered and folded & tempered later. Because another problem with casting steel like that is the “up” side of the cast blade will be flat, only the part contained within the mold would have any sword-looking features to it. The “up” side would be as flat as a lake surface, and for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/488 "2019-04-30T19:09:43Z")
Let’s take a vote: What subject of “discussion” was the most useless, distracting and stupid? A)Reworking Valarian steel B)Potatoes ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/489 "2019-04-30T19:13:23Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Let’s take a vote: What subject of “discussion” was the most useless, distracting and stupid? > > A)Reworking Valarian steel > B)Potatoes C) Whether or not to remove your shoes when entering the Red Keep ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/490 "2019-04-30T19:14:38Z")
Off topic a bit: my understanding of swordsmithing is that folding is only done for a couple of reasons–to even out the carbon content of poor quality steel (like with Japanese katanas) or to meld layers of different metals together. Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/491 "2019-04-30T19:14:55Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Let’s take a vote: What subject of “discussion” was the most useless, distracting and stupid? > > A)Reworking Valarian steel > B)Potatoes C) All of the above ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/492 "2019-04-30T19:16:58Z")
It appears to me that the Lord of Light has been playing the long game. He’s been manipulating people lives (usually with abuse) to move them in to place to be at the final battle. (For instance, Bran being pushed out the window led him to becoming the Three-Eyed Raven, who ended up with the dagger and gave it to the one person skilled enough to stealthily use it.) Throughout the series, folks have been told that the bad things that happened to them led them to where they were. Yeah, the Lord of Light is a dick but he did manage to kill the Night King. So I’m curious if he still has a part to play in the rest of the series or if that was his only purpose and he will quit being an asshole now. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/493 "2019-04-30T19:17:00Z")
D) The fate of a dumb wolf ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/494 "2019-04-30T19:17:31Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/495 "2019-04-30T19:31:31Z")
Was Gendry shown during the battle at all? I don’t remember seeing him. I get the feeling he might be a surprise death not shown until next episode. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/496 "2019-04-30T19:37:13Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Was Gendry shown during the battle at all? I don’t remember seeing him. I get the feeling he might be a surprise death not shown until next episode. He was up on the wall smacking zombies on the head with his rather large hammer as they attempted to climb up. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/497 "2019-04-30T19:45:46Z")
The show has suggested that Gendry was going to be significant, because he has royal blood. Of course, that was in the days when someone with royal blood could be used to do magic and I think the show is stepping away from that (especially as Melisandre is gone). But perhaps as a child of Robert Baratheon, he has a claim on the throne? Is the show going to end with a court case to decide who has the strongest claim? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/498 "2019-04-30T19:49:15Z")
Gendry was shown in the battle many times. He started off on the front lines, then miraculously made it back into Winterfell, where he miraculously survived many pile-ons of dead things, like the other main characters. I used to think it would be kind of pat to have Gendry and Arya fall in love. I was sure that this being Game of Thrones, Arya’s boinking him the night before was a guaranteed death sentence just like Brienne’s knighting. But that’s the old Game of Thrones. Now I think the TV series will probably end with Daeneris on the throne, Sansa in Winterfell, and Arya and Gendry leaving to explore the world like Arya always wanted. Because wouldn’t that be cute. Brienne and Jamie will see them off at the dock, with some wisecrack by Ser Davos being added in for a laugh. As they sail out of the Blackwater bay on their grand adventure, Daeneris and Jon will swoop in beside them on their dragons, laughing and waving, then the dragons will turn away and the ship will sail into the sunset, and all the magic will leave Westeros with them. Or maybe I’m thinking of another movie. It’s getting hard to tell them apart. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/499 "2019-04-30T19:51:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But perhaps as a child of Robert Baratheon, he has a claim on the throne? Is the show going to end with a court case to decide who has the strongest claim? Wouldn’t that be fun. Last episode is a Law & Order: Westeros edition. Though Gendry is still a bastard. A King could legitimize him, and perhaps if Jon takes the throne, that’s what he’ll do and give him Storm’s End. But before that, I don’t think he really has any claim on the throne. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/500 "2019-04-30T19:52:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The show has suggested that Gendry was going to be significant, because he has royal blood. Of course, that was in the days when someone with royal blood could be used to do magic and I think the show is stepping away from that (especially as Melisandre is gone). > > But perhaps as a child of Robert Baratheon, he has a claim on the throne? Is the show going to end with a court case to decide who has the strongest claim? My theory is that Gendry is the child Cersei talked about who “died” (she never saw a body). So he is the child of Robert and Cersie, which makes him the legitimate heir to the throne. I think Jamie is the one who took him and hid him away in Flea Bottom, maybe because he didn’t want Cersie to love Robert’s child. When he finds out that Gendry is Robert’s bastard, Jaime is going to realize who he is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=26)