# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/521 "2019-04-30T21:50:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If he said that, it’s only because the Lord of Light is one of the aspects of the Many-faced God. > > You have that exactly backwards with respect to the beliefs of the Faceless Men. All other gods are aspects of the Many-faced God, which is Death, including the Lord of Light, Old Gods, Drowned God, and The Seven (specifically the aspect of The Stranger). Inside the House of Black and White we see symbols of all the gods, but the flaming heart symbolizing the Lord of Light has no special place and is just one of many. Okay, I can see that. But I’ll have to go find that episode and listen for context, because it matters. But going with your explanation, they would still want to help defeat the dead. The many-faced God must be a God of the living, of which death is one aspect. The Night’s King wants to remove the living completely. I don’t think total annihilation is an aspect of the Many Faced God. So I would think that if in this case the Red God are facing down the Night’s King, the Faceless Men would serve the Red God in that battle, would they not? And if you are a Faceless Man, what better way to serve than to find a Stark, the natural defenders of the north, and train her in their ways so she can become a highly effective fighter? Or maybe there was a prophecy that suggested it might need to be Arya who kills him, so they sought her out and helped prepare her. Then let her go. There is no real other explanation for why she survived leaving the temple. Jaqen could send a dozen Faceless Men after her. Leaving the Faceless Men was supposed to be a death sentence, as I recall. But they spared Arya. The waif was just her graduation test, because no other Faceless Men followed her. This would also give us an opening for a surprise twist: After the battle is won and everyone lives happily ever after, Jaqen shows up and says, “And now that her duty is done, a girl must still pay the Many Faced God what she owes.” And kills her. In the TV world they probably won’t do that, because it would preclude the sequel, “GoT 2: Arya Stark, Stabbing for Justice”. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/522 "2019-04-30T21:51:59Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > 1. The whole thing didn’t really matter much in the end. Could’ve been cut, and the rest of the plot kept the same. > > 2. The white walkers in particular didn’t do a single thing, I think. If nothing else, it changes the battle for King’s Landing from a walk-over (three dragons, Dothraki and Unsullied) into an actual fight. > [@GargoyleWB](#): > > - We thought the Night King must be Targaeryan, standing in the dragon fire like that. I suspect the writers will ignore any follow-up though. Does the timing work, though? I thought the Targaeryan’s came from across the sea long after the Wall was built to keep the Night King at bay? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/523 "2019-04-30T22:09:50Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > You know what would have been cool and totally unexpected? If, instead of reaching for his weapon, the Night King s…l…o,w,l,y bent the knee. Indeed. That would have been great. I’ve no clue what the explanation for that could have been (except for the worst possible one), but this would have more than made up for all the clichés and other flaws of the episode. Millions of jaws would have dropped. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/524 "2019-04-30T22:11:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Doesn’t (or didn’t, anyway) the NK have the ability to shatter conventional steel by touching it? Could he have had similar destructive abilities if he touched living flesh? White Walkers are shown shattering conventional steel weapons by grabbing them or hitting them with an ice sword. But they smack around Sam and Jon without apparently having any effect more than a normal blow. And as has been said, one carried Craster’s Last Son in his arms for a long time without freezing him. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/525 "2019-04-30T22:12:15Z")
> [@pigtwo](#): > > Maybe the NK was making the winter longer and so that is no longer an issue? Yes, I wondered if the spring would return next episode. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/526 "2019-04-30T22:32:27Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > My theory is that Gendry is the child Cersei talked about who “died” (she never saw a body). So he is the child of Robert and Cersie, which makes him the legitimate heir to the throne. I think Jamie is the one who took him and hid him away in Flea Bottom, maybe because he didn’t want Cersie to love Robert’s child. When he finds out that Gendry is Robert’s bastard, Jaime is going to realize who he is. Well thought theory, even though I’m convinced this won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/527 "2019-04-30T22:41:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Jaqen H’ghar specifically says on the show that he worships ‘The Red God’. Does he? I don’t think so. He says that the red god is owed three lives. Which would be the lives of people who should have burn to death and didn’t (since he’s the god of fire). I don’t think he says he worships or follows him. As for the rest I wish the faceless men plot wouldn’t have ended with Arya leaving them, and that they had (through Arya) to play at the end of the series. But it doesn’t it’s going to happen. They appears to just have been a tool whose only use was to turn Arya in a bad-ass assassin. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/528 "2019-04-30T22:54:27Z")
I only managed to slog through the first four pages of this thread. So much negativity! I just sat back and enjoyed the ride, and man, what a ride! I don’t think I blinked for 83 minutes. Even though it was one long battle scene, I was captivated from beginning to end. Yeah, more characters survived than I expected. Yeah, some of them probably shouldn’t have. I’m not about to declare the episode “garbage” or even “disappointing” because of it. And I watched on a good TV in a darkened room and saw everything just fine. It was _supposed_ to be dark, and it fit the mood perfectly. (One of my favorite probably-never-happened-but-it’s-a-good-story stories involved the filming of the Helm’s Deep battle in _The Two Towers_. Sean Astin reportedly asked Peter Jackson where all the light was coming from, and Jackson replied, “The same place as the music.” I get it, but I also think folks here would be picking this episode apart just as much if it had _too much_ light instead of not enough.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/529 "2019-04-30T22:55:17Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I think it’s as simple as when Jaqen told Arya that she owed the Red God three deaths (he didn’t specifically say he worshiped the Red God, did he?), he was just pretending to be Jaqen from Lorath. Jaqen is just a face, and the person he was died when the faceless man took it. The faceless man is only pretending to be Jaqen, and claiming to worship the Red God is just part of keeping up the act. I don’t think you should assume even that. He’s not worshiping nor even pretending to worship him. These deaths were due for whatever reasons, and as a worshiper of death he needed to fix that. But they could have been due to any other god , or even to a mortal who had paid a the temple so that someone would die. They were owed to the red god simply because they were about to burn alive. If Arya had rescued them from drowning, he would have similarly said that three deaths were owed to the drowned god, for instance. Owing the deaths to a specific god or individual doesn’t mean that his allegiance lies with this particular god or individual. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/530 "2019-04-30T23:10:12Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Does he? I don’t think so. He says that the red god is owed three lives. [Jaqen: The Red God takes what is his, lovely girl. And only death may pay for life. You saved me and the two I was with. You stole three deaths from the Red God. We have to give them back.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxmOYERWQJk) (1:40) He doesn’t say he worships the Red God in particular. I think he just refers to the Lord of Light because they were saved from death by fire. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/531 "2019-04-30T23:13:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There is no real other explanation for why she survived leaving the temple. Jaqen could send a dozen Faceless Men after her. Leaving the Faceless Men was supposed to be a death sentence, as I recall. But they spared Arya. The waif was just her graduation test, because no other Faceless Men followed her. > > This would also give us an opening for a surprise twist: After the battle is won and everyone lives happily ever after, Jaqen shows up and says, “And now that her duty is done, a girl must still pay the Many Faced God what she owes.” And kills her. I wish. Or anything else for that matter (she could also leave with him to serve as the member of the cult she was supposed to be for the rest of her life). As I already mentioned, I’m terribly disappointed that there’s no big reveal wrt the faceless god (or about anything else, for that matter) while, like you, I was convinced they let her go for a purpose, that would turn to be a huge twist. But seemingly, the writers didn’t really care about this kind of background elements, and big surprises, reveals or twists aren’t on the menu. It seems the show is headed towards a perfectly classical and unsurprising resolution, as that of the army of the dead and night king plot was during this episode. We’ll see during the three remaining episodes, but frankly, I’ve now abandoned all hope that the show is going to be subtle in any way. It jumped the shark. I assume now that the only purpose of the faceless men was to train Arya, they let her go because they had served their purpose and Arya needed to return to the main plot with her superpowers, and the show writers didn’t care about whether it was making sense or not or about why the faceless men would let her leave. I will be very happily surprised if they play any part in the remaining episodes. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/532 "2019-04-30T23:19:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I will be very happily surprised if they play any part in the remaining episodes. Same here. But it would be neato if someone we think survived the battle was actually now a faceless man. Pretty much everybody is a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/533 "2019-04-30T23:24:02Z")
But wouldn’t it be known if the actor playing the faceless men guy was to appear this season (I assume they have to use this actor, since he’s in fact the only faceless man we know)? Or is this kind of info kept secret until the corresponding episode is aired? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/534 "2019-04-30T23:25:51Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I don’t think I blinked for 83 minutes. You wouldn’t have noticed if you did. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/535 "2019-04-30T23:31:24Z")
Actors seen during the recording of the show : The actor playing Jaqen _and_ the actress playing the waif have been seen in Sevilla during the recording of the show along with Maisie Williams. However the author points out that this could be a misdirection or that they could have just been visiting, and that it happened previously with the actress playing Shae even though she was dead for good. Still, it ramps up my hopes ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/536 "2019-04-30T23:47:11Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Booooooooo I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/537 "2019-05-01T00:14:31Z")
Is anyone speculating about the effect of the Night King’s grip on Arya? Will it mark her the way it marked Bran? Or is the mark on Bran now gone because the Night King was destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/538 "2019-05-01T00:15:50Z")
My guess is the mark on Bran is now gone. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/539 "2019-05-01T00:27:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My guess is the mark on Bran is now gone. Yes, you speak a kernel of truth, a germ of an idea. The Bran is whole, now. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/540 "2019-05-01T00:27:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You can tell that this episode was scripted by people who think visually. It was all about cool set pieces and visuals and big moments of heroism and near-death, and the writing suffered for it. When trading off realistic strategy and consequences for ‘cool’, cool wins every time if you are a TV guy. Especially on a show like this, with half the audience demanding a faithful adaptation and the other half demanding constant spectacle and big surprises and reveals. Sometimes a show or movie delivers both, and it becomes legendary. Game of Thrones may have just come screeching to a halt and become just another visual spectacle of cool scenes (see: any superhero movie of the past decade). > > It has three episodes left to correct this, though. The visuals for the show have always been part of its draw. The shots of the people in the crypt looked like Renaissance paintings. The failure of the visuals might be an unconscious part of the reaction to the murky did-I-see-that fog of the outdoor battle scenes. GoT is supposed to look cool, not incomprehensible. The flip side of that is that the visually cool is incompatible with verbal cleverness. We’ll have to see which way they swing for those last three episodes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=28)