# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/561 "2019-05-01T13:11:07Z")
My understanding is that the dire wolves were too difficult to work with so that’s why they have been little used on the show. Practical matters like this have always influenced productions. Books are always better that way. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/562 "2019-05-01T13:16:24Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Magical badass intelligent superwolf. > > Just because D&D wasted him for the last three seasons does not make it a dumb wolf. Nothing I’ve seen on the show has shown them to be any more magical, badass, or intelligent than a regular wolf or even a large dog. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/563 "2019-05-01T13:19:59Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nothing I’ve seen on the show has shown them to be any more magical, badass, or intelligent than a regular wolf or even a large dog. IIRC Bran’s wolf sensed that he was in danger when the catspaw tried to knife him in season 1 and saved his life. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/564 "2019-05-01T13:25:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My understanding is that the dire wolves were too difficult to work with so that’s why they have been little used on the show. Aren’t they just regular dogs that are made to look larger using CGI? I doubt they’re any more difficult to work with than the dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/565 "2019-05-01T13:26:47Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > If characters had been allowed to have an actual story play out in the battle, this would have opened up the possibility for all the sacrifices, meaningful moments, etc. that SenorBeef is absolutely right to point out were missing. I have to agree with this. Even if it was just Pod slashing at zombies while Brianne corrects him: “You’re lunging again. Stay off your heels! You’re leaving your flank open!” And maybe Jaime has a dragonglass flail attached to his right arm and he’s discovering new and interesting ways to use it. Anything but just failing to die for 60 minutes as wave after wave of undeads bury them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/566 "2019-05-01T13:37:06Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Magical badass intelligent superwolf. You can easily buy wolves like that up here. Just go to your nearest Canadian Dire. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/567 "2019-05-01T13:37:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not only no reason to do, but no reason to know about, especially Arya’s backstory with Sansa. Definitely one of the most preposterous and absurd theories I’ve heard. She would in fact know pretty much everything about Arya’s backstory and even feelings. She interrogated her relentlessly about every detail of her life. There’s nobody more prepared to impersonate Arya than the waif. It would in fact explain why they acted this way. As for why she would, for instance, take revenge on the Freys, that would require a bit convoluted explanation, but still possible : doing what Arya would have done would help fooling people who had known her. Or/and they felt a moral/religious obligation to eliminate people she would have killed, either because a life was owed or because Arya’s list was the equivalent of the request made at the temple of black and white for someone to die. Or/and impersonating someone and wearing her face tends to turn you ( or rather : “no one”) into this person so the waif becomes progressively indistinguishable from the real Arya. No, I think the main reason why this couldn’t happen is become fans would hang the writers at the nearest lamp post if they were told that Arya died miserably in a dark cellar years ago. I love the idea, though. In fact, given what the faceless men are, no one, whether this person is “the real” Arya or the waif or even Jaqen shouldn’t even be obvious or matter from their point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/568 "2019-05-01T13:40:23Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > And maybe Jaime has a dragonglass flail attached to his right arm and he’s discovering new and interesting ways to use it. Ooh, I like that. Perhaps even better would be replacing his golden hand with Wolverine/Freddy Krueger dragonglass claws - it seems like a lot of his weapons training would translate to something like fairly well. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/569 "2019-05-01T13:41:06Z")
So, Meera Reed is a dead wight? I’m saying this because all the Stark bannermen that didn’t make it into Winterfell were fighting for the Night King, yes? Edmure died a slow, horrible death locked up in his honeymoon suite because all the Freys were dead. Darrios? Living the good life as King of Meereen. Robyn Arryn died of thirst when his only source of liquid fell through the moon door. Hot Pie opened on on-line bakery called You Know Nothing, Jon Dough (this is true for real in real lilfe!). ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/570 "2019-05-01T13:49:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > So, Meera Reed is a dead wight? I’m saying this because all the Stark bannermen that didn’t make it into Winterfell were fighting for the Night King, yes? > > Edmure died a slow, horrible death locked up in his honeymoon suite because all the Freys were dead. The Reeds are from Greywater Watch, which is south of Winterfell. No reason to think she’s dead. Isn’t Edmure in control of Riverrun, not in a dungeon? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/571 "2019-05-01T13:50:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Aren’t they just regular dogs that are made to look larger using CGI? I doubt they’re any more difficult to work with than the dragons. The dogs are real animals, who, I read, were found difficult to use. The dragons are just special effects. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/572 "2019-05-01T13:51:52Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > OK, this thread is moving faster than I can hope to keep up, so I won’t try to read all the responses… But I suspect I’ll be in the minority when I say that I liked it. I think it’s not without a certain irony that, on a show whose fans have spent seven seasons lamenting their plight regarding all their favorite characters being killed off, now everybody’s up in arms about how not enough people died in the last episode. Not necessarily the same people. I never complained about anybody’s death, even though I think that some deaths could have been handled better (i.e. Littlefinger). Also, not wanting your favorite character to die doesn’t mean you have an issue with non-favorite characters being dispatched. > [@](#): > > Oh, and I narrowly dodged a humongous spoiler bullet—the headline from the Telegraph, “_Why Arya Stark was always destined to stab the Night King in the gut_”, just showed up on my facebook feed. I mean, come on. Going to such lengths to reveal the probably biggest spoiler of GoT all in one headline kinda has to be an intentional dick move. This show has become so big that what happened on it seems to now be dealt with like news would be “Breaking news : according to witnesses, Brienne would have survived the attack on Winterfell”. Any courtesy rule wrt spoilers seems not to apply anymore in the case of GoT. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/573 "2019-05-01T13:53:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > IIRC Bran’s wolf sensed that he was in danger when the catspaw tried to knife him in season 1 and saved his life. Meh. Regular dogs in real life do that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/574 "2019-05-01T13:54:16Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So after 8 years of telling us “petty squabbling will be your downfall, you aren’t worried about the real threat” - what did that real threat end up being? “Oh, the apocalyptic force of Death Itself which threatened to wipe out all life” ended up being a minor problem that basically just served to weaken one side of a mundane human conflict so that the final battle would have closer odds. > > That’s not subversive or clever, that’s just not knowing how to stick the landing on half the story you created over 8 years and so you basically just throw it away and try to land the other half of the story. > > But it just cheapens everything. Bran’s whole journey, the army of the dead, the night king, the long night, the end of mankind, ended up amounting to jack shit. And we’re supposed to believe that a squabble between two queens was the real, high stakes threat after all, not something that looked for 8 years like it was going to wipe out all life. > > That is just a mess. That’s not good storytelling. If you ever rewatch the series, you can discard half the damn story that involved the Night’s Watch and Bran and Jon Snow and the Night King because it never really amounted to anything. This. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/575 "2019-05-01T13:58:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The Reeds are from Greywater Watch, which is south of Winterfell. No reason to think she’s dead. > > Isn’t Edmure in control of Riverrun, not in a dungeon? Glad to hear about Meera. As for Edmure-- I don’t remember hearing anything about him after Jaime made the Freys take him down off the gallows. Doesn’t mean things didn’t happen, though. It’s pretty easy to lose track of people. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/576 "2019-05-01T14:04:41Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Glad to hear about Meera. As for Edmure-- I don’t remember hearing anything about him after Jaime made the Freys take him down off the gallows. Doesn’t mean things didn’t happen, though. It’s pretty easy to lose track of people. Jaime released him into Riverrun on the condition that Edmure would surrender the castle. Perhaps it’s mentioned that he also agreed to return to captivity afterwards, I’d have to rewatch the Jaime/Frey scene. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/577 "2019-05-01T14:07:53Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > The idea of an ‘ending’—some place where a story arrives at for final closure—is really just a narrative convention. We want to have things make sense, to know that everything led up to this moment, and is retroactively justified. But there are no endings in the real world; stuff just goes on. Nobody ever had to die just so x could happen; at best, they died, and x happened. So again, by not leading to the satisfying closure you desire, the show just honors its commitment to ignoring this sort of convention. (Which, of course, you’re free to dislike.) Nobody says that narrative convention should just all be discarded. And anyway, even if this is a proper ending, the show still has dealt with the threat they build for 8 years and countless episodes in the blink of an eye. It disappeared essentially as soon as it actually materialized, while every petty rivalry during the rest of the show took many episodes to be told, evolve and be resolved. The attack of the undead should have gotten much more screen time, including drama, events, build up, involvement of main characters, etc…over the course of several episodes, maybe ending up indeed with this “last stand at Winterfell”. It really would not have been difficult to come up with many distinct events, adventures, dramas, smaller scale battles, etc…and build up a sense of doom and dread and fill up a large number of episodes. That would have been vastly more satisfying even if the end was exactly the same. As it is, it feels it was just a distracting detail they unfortunately had to deal with quickly in some way before the end, like say, the fate of Littlefinger. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/578 "2019-05-01T14:11:01Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I get what you mean, but the way she did it didn’t end up feeling “stealthy assassin” so much as deud ex jumpy ninja. The way she dropped her knife and caught it was a well supported flourish - we’ve seen her do things like that before - but it would’ve seemed like it was more unique to her skillset if it involved something she’s picked up along the way - face changing, blind fighting, or even just clever assassin tactics - rather than just jumping on him unexpectedly. > > But fair point, I feel 3% better about it. She was out of time. Bran was seconds away from being killed. She was saving her brother, not killing the Night King. That’s was just a bonus. Normally when she kills, she lays and executes an elaborate plan. Like she did with Ser Meryn Trant. And the Freys. This was her winging it. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/579 "2019-05-01T14:14:02Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > In fact, my big criticism of the episode is that none of the other characters got any kind of story arc within it - other than Arya. Well… Melisandre’s arc seems to have hit a significant milestone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/580 "2019-05-01T14:15:20Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Jaime released him into Riverrun on the condition that Edmure would surrender the castle. Perhaps it’s mentioned that he also agreed to return to captivity afterwards, I’d have to rewatch the Jaime/Frey scene. Ah yes, I remember now. The Blackfish was not happy about that at all. I don’t know how I forgot this since my husband insists he got away from Riverrun on a boat. We disagree on this, like the Blackfish would slink away and not die defending Riverrun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=30)