# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/581 "2019-05-01T14:15:48Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > On to other things: What was up with Bran warging into that unkindness of ravens? It didn’t really seem to accomplish anything. Was it just to give us that initial shot of the Night King riding Viserion? I assume it was done so that he would look like he was doing something rather than just sitting on his ass, even though what he was doing was entirely pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/582 "2019-05-01T14:17:51Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > In fact, my big criticism of the episode is that none of the other characters got any kind of story arc within it - other than Arya. Melisandra, Theon and Jorah would have liked to have a word with you but they’re all dead. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/583 "2019-05-01T14:17:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not only no reason to do, but no reason to know about, especially Arya’s backstory with Sansa. Definitely one of the most preposterous and absurd theories I’ve heard. Obviously I’m not seriously expecting that Arya is really the waif _now_, that would be ridiculous - hence the smiley face that I’m still waiting for the reveal. But for a reveal in series 7 I think it would have fit well with the original spirit of the series. As clairobscur said: > [@clairobscur](#): > > She would in fact know pretty much everything about Arya’s backstory and even feelings. She interrogated her relentlessly about every detail of her life. There’s nobody more prepared to impersonate Arya than the waif. It would in fact explain why they acted this way. As for the reason? We’ve had no coherent account of what the Faceless Men are all about in the story as told, but as much as anything they appear to be a cult of death. As again alluded to in the rest of clairobscur’s comment, I think it makes perfect sense that after killing Arya they view it as a spiritual obligation to take on her “list”, to take the lives of those _she_ wished dead. Early in S7, after “Walter Frey” peeling off his face to reveal that he’s Arya, it would have been a superb mindfuck to have a subsequent reveal where “Arya” peels off her face to reveal the waif. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/584 "2019-05-01T14:22:31Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Isn’t Edmure in control of Riverrun, not in a dungeon? No, he agreed under duress to enter Riverrun and order his men to surrender it to the Lannisters/Freys. What happened to him after that we don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/585 "2019-05-01T14:25:25Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Ah yes, I remember now. The Blackfish was not happy about that at all. I don’t know how I forgot this since my husband insists he got away from Riverrun on a boat. We disagree on this, like the Blackfish would slink away and not die defending Riverrun. The Blackfish was killed, by “mere soldiers” as someone put it. We don’t see his death on screen, it’s just reported to Jaime and commented on later by lord Frey. Your husband might be mixing up the books and the show. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/586 "2019-05-01T14:29:00Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Well… Melisandre’s arc seems to have hit a significant milestone. 🙂 Seems like she’s the only suicide in the show, and even so hers is maybe the only story that wrapped up nicely before it ended. She was so damn done, and it showed so much that all I could feel when she melted away was, “Yeah, it’s time for you to hang it up.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/587 "2019-05-01T14:30:20Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Seems like she’s the only suicide in the show, and even so hers is maybe the only story that wrapped up nicely before it ended. She was so damn done, and it showed so much that all I could feel when she melted away was, “Yeah, it’s time for you to hang it up.” I don’t get why people keep calling it a suicide. Also Tomnen was the first suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/588 "2019-05-01T14:33:14Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t get why people keep calling it a suicide. Also Tomnen was the first suicide. Melisandre took action to end her own life. Not sure why it would be called anything else. But yeah, forgot about Tomnen, unsurprisingly. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/589 "2019-05-01T14:36:24Z")
So apparently Walder Frey mentions that Edmure is back in a cell after he surrendered Riverrun. Unclear what the Frey women did with him after Arya kills the men. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/590 "2019-05-01T14:36:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nothing I’ve seen on the show has shown them to be any more magical, badass, or intelligent than a regular wolf or even a large dog. Summer pretty much was the full protector of Bran on his long long travels through Narnia. They didn’t give much to Lady, died too early. Nymeria got chased off at that point (Aryas), and was met in the show leading a wolf pack of normal wolves. The got wiki lists them as intelligent, and the size of a small horse. Grey Wind fought battles alongside Robb Stark in the Riverlands. Ghost has featured saving Sam, protecting and alerting Jon to danger in and around the wall. So in effect a battle wolf· ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/591 "2019-05-01T14:39:25Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > So apparently Walder Frey mentions that Edmure is back in a cell after he surrendered Riverrun. Unclear what the Frey women did with him after Arya kills the men. Cue porno music. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/592 "2019-05-01T14:42:13Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Melisandre took action to end her own life. Not sure why it would be called anything else. But yeah, forgot about Tomnen, unsurprisingly. By that reasoning everyone who fought was a suicide, she did her part in the battle and it cost her life. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/593 "2019-05-01T14:50:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > By that reasoning everyone who fought was a suicide, she did her part in the battle and it cost her life. I think the removal of her Fountain of Youth Charm was a clear indication that she was choosing to die before the dawn. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/594 "2019-05-01T14:56:41Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Cue porno music. I wasn’t going to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/595 "2019-05-01T14:57:10Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Jaime released him into Riverrun on the condition that Edmure would surrender the castle. Perhaps it’s mentioned that he also agreed to return to captivity afterwards, I’d have to rewatch the Jaime/Frey scene. > [@Biggirl](#): > > Ah yes, I remember now. The Blackfish was not happy about that at all. I don’t know how I forgot this since my husband insists he got away from Riverrun on a boat. We disagree on this, like the Blackfish would slink away and not die defending Riverrun. Edmure agreed to order the surrender of the Tully troops and Riverrun in return for Jaime promising to allow him and his son to live out the rest of their lives in comfortable captivity in Casterly Rock. As soon as Jaime left, Walder Frey ordered him thrown back in the dungeon but said he wouldn’t kill him because he was his son-in-law. We don’t know if Frey also slaughtered the surrendered Tully troops. Edmure presumably would have still been in a cell at the Twins when Arya slaughtered the Freys, but there was no mention of him then. If Arya freed him, he’s been very quiet up until now. Jaime allowed Brienne and Pod to escape from Riverrun by boat, but Edmure or the Blackfish wasn’t with them. That’s the source of your husband’s confusion. The Blackfish was said to have died refusing to surrender Riverrun, but it happened offscreen. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/596 "2019-05-01T15:18:27Z")
Stopped by a teenager with a pocket knife? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/597 "2019-05-01T15:34:11Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Melisandre took action to end her own life. Not sure why it would be called anything else. But yeah, forgot about Tomnen, unsurprisingly. What action? She removed her collar, but we’ve seen that it’s not necessary for her to live, just to keep her youthful appearance. She died either because she had exhausted her “magical energy” during the battle, which isn’t suicide anymore than sacrificing yourself in battle, or simply because she had served her purpose and her time was up as she alludes to wrt Beric. I don’t think she could have lived longer even if she had wanted to. And in fact I find surprising to forget about Tomnen’s death. I found it a poignant scene within one of the most unforgettable episode of the series, and there’s no way I could forget it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/598 "2019-05-01T15:42:09Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Melisandre took action to end her own life. Not sure why it would be called anything else. But yeah, forgot about Tomnen, unsurprisingly. What action? She removed her collar, but we’ve seen that it’s not necessary for her to live, just to keep her youthful appearance. She died either because she had exhausted her “magical energy” during the battle, which isn’t suicide anymore than sacrificing yourself in battle, or simply because she had served her purpose and her time was up as she alludes to wrt Beric. I don’t think she could have lived longer even if she had wanted to. And in fact I find surprising to forget about Tomnen’s death. I found it a poignant scene within one of the most unforgettable episode of the series, and there’s no way I could forget it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/599 "2019-05-01T15:44:33Z")
The episode gets better with rewatching. I caught some things I missed before, and could appreciate some of the staging since I wasn’t so involved with what was about to happen. I also watched it in a completely blacked-out room. For all of our complaints about the tactics of the Good Guys, they were kinda constrained in what they could do. The Dothraki charge was unbelievably stupid, but what else could they do? They couldn’t NOT be in the battle, and the enemy was something that cavalry wouldn’t work against in _any_ fashion. The rest of the GG tactics were just winging it, and it showed. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/600 "2019-05-01T15:48:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > And maybe Jaime has a dragonglass flail attached to his right arm and he’s discovering new and interesting ways to use it. Ooh, I like that. Perhaps even better would be replacing his golden hand with Wolverine/Freddy Krueger dragonglass claws - it seems like a lot of his weapons training would translate to something like fairly well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=31)