# Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190 "2019-04-28T20:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/621 "2019-05-01T20:50:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Arya is OP (overpowered). That’s what you get when you let an assassin grow on guild hand-outs and then power level with a high level unspecialized fighter. So hard to set up challenging campaigns when you have no practical experience with how that character will play when you give her a +3 Holy Avenger dagger and the dice actually come out. Game is over before the root beer is even warm. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/622 "2019-05-01T20:51:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Arya is OP (overpowered). > > She’s a one woman wrecking crew. She kills the Freys (all of them). Little Finger. Ser Meryn. The Waif. She’s beaten the Hound and tied with Brienne. And of course the Night King. Anybody could have killed Littlefinger. He was at the mercy of the court. I don’t recall Arya having beaten the Hound. I agree that she’s overpowered, but anybody who can look like anybody automatically has a strong advantage. I like how this episode portrayed her as not quite a superhero (up until that amazing leap). She crowdsurfed down the stairs on the heads of the undead and landed with a graceful… ummm… broke her fall with her face. Then she almost fell off the roof. Then, after the library scene, she was forced to run run run until backup arrived. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/623 "2019-05-01T20:56:58Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Well, _you would have liked it_ if the attack of the dead had gotten more screen time, drama, build up, and so on; it doesn’t follow that it _should have_ been done that way. I liked it fine the way they showed it; I think it’s good narrative and thematic consistency to have what seemed poised to be some grand good vs. evil struggle as we’ve seen it unfold hundreds of times before turn out to in the end not matter all that much, since well, in the real world, the grand good vs. evil struggle doesn’t really mean that much after all. What matters is people muddling through, and trying to deal with things as best they can. I also expected that there would be more to it than a “grand good vs evil struggle”. I had expected during the whole series that it would be more subtle than that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/624 "2019-05-01T20:59:28Z")
I’ve been reading recaps and discussion of the episode on various sites and the website for Cosmopolitan magazine (of all places) pointed out that Jon Snow seemed to be helping Arya by distracting the wight dragon as she was approaching the Night King. The point seemed to be that he wasn’t completely useless in defeating the Night King, even if he didn’t deliver the killing blow. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/625 "2019-05-01T21:03:44Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I also expected that there would be more to it than a “grand good vs evil struggle”. I had expected during the whole series that it would be more subtle than that. This is part of it too. It feels like something as simple as a good guys vs monsters story wasn’t going to ultimately be core to the resolution of this story, so it felt like there would be some clever twist that would subvert our expectations or give us a new perspective on what the army of the dead represented. It was disappointing that no, indeed, it was just a generic set of monsters. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/626 "2019-05-01T21:06:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’ve been reading recaps and discussion of the episode on various sites and the website for Cosmopolitan magazine (of all places) pointed out that Jon Snow seemed to be helping Arya by distracting the wight dragon as she was approaching the Night King. The point seemed to be that he wasn’t completely useless in defeating the Night King, even if he didn’t deliver the killing blow. Nah, they are just reaching. They very obviously wanted Arya’s last second save to be a complete shock to everyone, the white walker looking while some wind blows past him is only a hint in retrospect. If they wanted Jon to distract the dragon for Arya there would have at least been some eye contact between them, and it would have completely given away the surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/627 "2019-05-01T21:07:48Z")
I like Arya enough, but I have had a hard time buying into enough time passing for her to become as cool as she is. How much time has passed in their world since Ned got executed? How much assassin/ninja/face-changing training did she actually get? You tell me she trained like Batman in Batman Begins, I kind of get that she is the face-changing-Batgirl of their world. I just don’t see the time. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/628 "2019-05-01T21:09:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Arya is OP (overpowered). > > She’s a one woman wrecking crew. She kills the Freys (all of them). Little Finger. Ser Meryn. The Waif. She’s beaten the Hound and tied with Brienne. And of course the Night King. > > There are more than just those but that is what I can remember. [RANDOM THOUGHTS] I don’t remember her beating The Hound in any version of the story and Littlefinger was technically beaten by Sansa, Arya just acted as executioner, but it was an excellent demonstration…She killed Meryn and the Frey’s with her brain more than fighting skill (if you discount her magic medieval ninja skills)…She HAS magic medieval ninja skills…She tied Brienne in combat…I don’t believe for a second she really killed The Waif but she did make a decent showing… [/RANDOM THOUGHTS] Fuck me, she really is OP. I guess I’m just ok with that. I mean, at least one of the Starks had to turn out to be a pure bad ass, right? Jon, Bran and Sansa have just been so disappointing that she needs to represent for her squad. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/629 "2019-05-01T21:10:45Z")
It’s not over until it’s over. The _threat_ of the Night King might be gone, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get any more info about him over the next three episodes. I would hope that info gives us a more nuanced perspective on what he and the White Walkers were all about. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/630 "2019-05-01T21:15:43Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not over until it’s over. The _threat_ of the Night King might be gone, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get any more info about him over the next three episodes. I would hope that info gives us a more nuanced perspective on what he and the White Walkers were all about. I re-watched today and it is clear to me editing is telling us Bran was helping him or guiding him or at least hinting to him what to do. Now, that could be because “Dr. Strange style” Bran saw the 1 in a million path to defeat him(Lead him to himself, have Theon run at him, Arya hides and kills him). Or…Bran is the Night King or is actively helping him for some complicated reason we have yet to learn. If nothing about this is mentioned or revealed, it’s a bunch of crap. The show was barely hiding that he was helping at this point; we are so close to a reveal. It is also clear the Red Lady knew Arya would kill NK. She said, “You have closed many eyes…brown…green…and blue.” Come on. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/631 "2019-05-01T21:16:09Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I like Arya enough, but I have had a hard time buying into enough time passing for her to become as cool as she is. > > How much time has passed in their world since Ned got executed? How much assassin/ninja/face-changing training did she actually get? I believe it’s assumed that one year of real time is more or less one year in the show too. So, about 7-8 years since Ned execution, and 2 years of assassin training (she reaches Braavos at the beginning of season 5, and leaves the faceless men at the end of season 6). By the way checking this last episode, I noticed that Jaqen smiles when she announces that she’s going home. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/632 "2019-05-01T21:24:45Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not over until it’s over. The _threat_ of the Night King might be gone, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get any more info about him over the next three episodes. I would hope that info gives us a more nuanced perspective on what he and the White Walkers were all about. This is what I think as well. There are three episodes left at around 1 hour, 20 minutes each. That’s plenty of time to do more than deal with Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/633 "2019-05-01T21:34:09Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How much time has passed in their world since Ned got executed? After her sex scene, the showrunners mentioned that Arya was 11 when the show started and 20 years old now. (The actress is two years older, so 13-22.) Which is about one year per season plus the year that GoT didn’t air. I’d say her Faceless Man training was probably a year, possibly two. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/634 "2019-05-01T21:40:47Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How much time has passed in their world since Ned got executed? How much assassin/ninja/face-changing training did she actually get? Bran went from [this](https://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/blogs.dir/385/files/2015/12/Bran-Stark-in-Season-1.png) to [this.](https://fsmedia.imgix.net/82/be/a7/45/e7a4/42b6/a930/3d95e9ab9dde/bran-stark-waiting-for-an-old-friend.jpeg?crop=faces&fit=crop&auto=format%2Ccompress&h=1200&w=1200) Sansa and Arya went from [this](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1480/6848/files/Inverse-SansaAyra.jpg?v=1503869151) to [this](https://fsmedia.imgix.net/9d/2c/0c/e9/75cd/4c93/aee5/c0ea2b4a25d0/arya-stark-maisie-williams-on-game-of-thrones.jpeg?crop=edges&fit=crop&auto=format%2Ccompress&dpr=2&h=325&w=650)and [this.](https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Flindamaleh%2Ffiles%2F2019%2F04%2FScreen-Shot-2019-04-15-at-2.44.58-AM.jpg) Of course the actors have aged eight years, so their characters have too. But I think that’s consistent with the time assumed in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/635 "2019-05-01T21:47:25Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I’d say her Faceless Man training was probably a year, possibly two. She spent almost all of seasons 5 and 6 in Braavos. Before that she spent 2 seasons as the Hound’s captive. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/636 "2019-05-01T21:53:43Z")
I agree that having Arya be dead all these years is a ludicrous notion. If they actually reveal this, it will be the sharkiest of shark jumps. Which doesn’t mean it won’t happen: even two of my favorite shows, “The Americans” and “Breaking Bad”, made one such misstep each. > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > OK, this thread is moving faster than I can hope to keep up, so I won’t try to read all the responses… But I suspect I’ll be in the minority when I say that I liked it. I think it’s not without a certain irony that, on a show whose fans have spent seven seasons lamenting their plight regarding all their favorite characters being killed off, now everybody’s up in arms about how not enough people died in the last episode. Of course, everything will depend on how the characters’ stories are brought to a closure—if characters lived only because they’re too big to kill, then that’ll mean this was indeed bad writing; but if they have some role to play in whatever way the story is carried forward, then I think a good character arc trumps ‘they should’ve been dead with all the wights swarming them’. So I’m at least willing to keep an open mind. > > Arya’s jumping the Night King did come kinda out of left field, although I did think that the dagger that had been used in the assassination attempt on Bran, thus playing a part in putting him on his course to becoming the Three-Eyed Raven, would play a role in the end. I did love, however, that they actually just went and resolved the conflict with the Night King here and now: it mirrors the way Ned Stark was unceremoniously executed in season 1. There, what we thought was the main protagonist is just dispatched with; here, what we thought was the main antagonist is likewise removed from the equation. Thus, this is a real _Game of Thrones_; the main conflict never was against the Night King, but about the Iron Throne. Not the simplistic forces of good against forces of evil (or fire against ice, or whatever), but mundane, ordinary, realistic struggle for dominance. Whether they can bring that to a satisfying closure, though, remains to be seen. I agree 100% with all of this. I think the objection that too few characters died is odd; and I am very, very glad to have the NK off the board so we can get on with the “Game of Thrones”. Think of how much more interesting a villain Cersei is than the mute, just-out-to-destroy-everything NK. And Arya’s assassin move was cool. But the whole battle that made up the middle of the episode was awful. I intend to do a rewatch of the whole series at some point, but I can’t imagine I’ll sit through that again. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The Direwolves were quite clearly meant to be magical creatures sent by whatever magical force to protect the Stark children. “Quite clearly” is a considerable overstatement. Until reading your post just now, it never occurred to me that it was anything but a coincidence, just something that happened to occur. Even after reading your post, I’m far from struck by a thunderbolt (“Of course–it makes perfect sense and can’t be anything else!”). I would chalk it up as “an interesting and unproven theory”, no more. I do like your suggestion for Tyrion and the dragonglass though. > [@DrCube](#): > > It’s not over until it’s over. The _threat_ of the Night King might be gone, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get any more info about him over the next three episodes. I would hope that info gives us a more nuanced perspective on what he and the White Walkers were all about. I clearly want something different out of the show than you do, because I sincerely hope we are done with the NK and the WW, other than at most a couple minutes of debriefing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/637 "2019-05-01T21:55:31Z")
I liked the episode and didn’t really have a problem following the action on screen. Maybe my friend just has an awesome TV. The terrible strategy did bother me. I’m hoping to see a deleted scene: Bran: Send the Dothraki out first, have them attack the wights. Everyone else: What!? We should hold them in reserve. Even my Squire knows that. Bran: Yes, but it will look great for the viewers at home. Ominous and foreboding. EE: the what now? Bran: I AM THE THREE EYED RAVEN! NONE OF THIS IS REAL! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/638 "2019-05-01T22:13:04Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I don’t recall Arya having beaten the Hound. Yeah. I guess I am mis-remembering and conflating it a bit when she tells the Hound to his face and with no doubt in her voice that she will kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/639 "2019-05-01T22:17:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I agree that having Arya be dead all these years is a ludicrous notion. If they actually reveal this, it will be the sharkiest of shark jumps. Which doesn’t mean it won’t happen: even two of my favorite shows, “The Americans” and “Breaking Bad”, made one such misstep each. I have a co-worker who keeps pushing an “Arya is dead, the Waif took her place” theory. I am not buying it at all. When Arya kills Walder Frey she first kills his sons and cooks them into a meatpie for Walder to eat. No way the Waif would have bothered with all of that. Not to mention the satisfaction on Arya’s face when she kills Walder. The Waif would have been businesslike about it all and only killed her target. Further, the Faceless Men are all about a life for a life and no way the Waif would go to kill Walder unless someone paid a fortune for the assassination. Killing his sons she would not do unless they were also on the hit list. Poison the whole Frey clan? Just no…not happening. That was all Arya getting revenge. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/640 "2019-05-01T22:24:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This is part of it too. It feels like something as simple as a good guys vs monsters story wasn’t going to ultimately be core to the resolution of this story, so it felt like there would be some clever twist that would subvert our expectations or give us a new perspective on what the army of the dead represented. It was disappointing that no, indeed, it was just a generic set of monsters. Yeah, I’m not sure how I feel about the resolution of the White Walker story line. The past two episodes were pretty good as a standalone “Siege of Winterfell”. But in the context of the larger story, the White Walkers were something that’s been looming in the background for the past seven seasons as something much larger and scarier than the petty quest for the Iron Throne. Now that they’ve been neatly dispatched\*, it’s back to fighting over the big chair. \*Unless… Maybe the Night King isn’t really dead, and we are in for an even longer night at King’s Landing? Probably not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190.md?page=33)