# Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524 "2019-05-05T20:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/321 "2019-05-07T12:42:12Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The way Bronn shot an arrow at the wall and then instantly loaded another arrow into his crossbow, like within half a second…that’s not how crossbows work, right? At least not the old-fashioned crossbows shown in the show, right? Don’t they have to be cranked to build up the spring tension necessary to fire the bolt? I somehow had the impression he was given the same crossbow that Tyrion used on his father. After rewatching I’m not sure. What is certain is we know that Tyrion’s crossbow doesn’t reload like that because we have seen it. [https://youtu.be/yMoNv6yOSCQ](https://youtu.be/yMoNv6yOSCQ) Bronn could have easily killed them both with a sword so I don’t know if it makes much difference. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Have really come to appreciate the overall music this season. Always digged it but now have really studied up on it I’ve been long convinced that Ramin Djawadi is a genius. You’re right this season is particularly good. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/322 "2019-05-07T13:29:35Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > No matter when you decide to start measuring, Cersei in power is nothing but misery for the people. First she empowers and unleashes religious fanatics on the populace, then nukes a huge amount of the power structure of the capital. > > If you wait to start counting until Tommen’s death, last season was full of like 4 different wars. There was the Lannister siege on Highgarden, the Lannister capitulation of Casterly Rock; the entirety of Westeros was marching back and forth from coast to coast in all-out war. (All the “show teleportation” translates into a Bataan death march for the troops.) Agreed. And everyone trying to remove Cersei from power have arguably made things worse. At this stage in the game there aren’t any good candidates left. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/323 "2019-05-07T13:41:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yup, there it is (at 17:40 for me, as an HBO GO subscriber). Wow. That is a serious fuckup. People have speculated that they slipped it in there purposefully, as a joke…but that seems like a kind of weak joke, so IDK. OTOH, it also seems hard to imagine that Emilia Clarke would somehow fail to notice a takout coffee cup sitting pretty much in her line of vision. I guess maybe it’s one of those mundane objects that can become psychologically invisible? So weird. Nothing weird about it. It’s paid product placement, common in almost all shows. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/324 "2019-05-07T13:43:15Z")
Hound & Mountain have their fight, Hound gets killed pretty much immediately. LoL resurrects him (all a priest does is make the request, the god does the actual heavy lifting if they think it’s a good idea). LoL don’t like zombies, and Hound is the most likely cleanser for that particular filth. Hound will have to do it up close and with fire, though. So he’s got to overcome that phobia, which they made sure to show us is still a problem for him. Jaime has gone to King’s Landing to undo Cerci, but so have Hound and Arya. See above for Hound, and that still leaves Arya available to get Jaime’s face for the Cercei killin’. Alternatively, Arya uses Mountain’s face to get close to Cercei–but undead faces are permanent (she learns)! D’oh! Dany flirts with the Targarian madness, but harnesses it instead even as she executes some uncharacteristically brilliant and convoluted plot twist. No. She’s bonkers. She dies with her dragon taking out Euron’s boats–someone’s got to or Yara’s going to be fish bait soon. Having said that–an Ironborn on the Iron Throne? Jon either dies or sulks off to the far north. He doesn’t like people. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/325 "2019-05-07T14:15:48Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Nothing weird about it. It’s paid product placement, common in almost all shows. Hopefully this is dry wit in action. (It’s not even a Starbucks cup, despite the repeated references to it as such on social media.) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/326 "2019-05-07T14:35:20Z")
Bronn is using a Colt .45 six-shooter crossbow. Talk about product placement! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/327 "2019-05-07T14:36:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Hopefully this is dry wit in action. (It’s not even a Starbucks cup, despite the repeated references to it as such on social media.) Are you sure about that? Because that’s (part of) what makes me so sure it’s product placement. Hundreds of articles about the cup, and none say “paper cup” or “coffee cup”. _All_ of them say “Starbucks cup”. Almost like a secret press release was leaked by the producers pointing it out with that language. There’s also the fact that that frame of footage was overseen by probably 50 people during editing, not to mention the director and actors on set over the course of several hours of filming. Every prop, every costume, every hair on the actors’ heads is agonized over until it is just so. There’s no way I can see that some anachronistic trash was left in the final edit by mistake. And if it wasn’t a mistake, the only reason is paid placement. Granted, I know none of that as a fact. I just can’t imagine any other possibility. I know that’s an argument from ignorance, and I’m happy to have my ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/328 "2019-05-07T15:02:57Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > [Dany whispered to Ser Friendzone’s corpse] “I’ll never have another friend as dear as you.” Cite? > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > …So breaking the wheel just means being a better ruler than Cersei? Do you think that’s what Tyrion thought Dany meant? Seems clear she thinks of herself as more than just a conqueror, but there’s no indication of what her ruling philosophy is other than “bend the knee or my barbarian horde will murder you.” “Or my dragon will eat and/or burn you to death… if I still have one.” > [@Colibri](#): > > If you think that Dany has always been depicted as always being good and sane you haven’t been paying attention. From the very first season, she’s been shown being utterly cruel and ruthless to those who stood in her way, or who she thought wronged her. And those flashes of her character are becoming more frequent and significant. Her flipping out and deciding to “Burn them all” is consistent with her character as it’s been established over eight seasons. While she was sitting at the feast, watching the Lannister brothers talk and Tormund praise Jon, her expression and the music certainly suggested she was feeling a bit stabby. > [@clairobscur](#): > > Seemingly, [showing Jon say goodbye to Ghost] would have killed their budget. Apparently, having the direwolves appear along with characters is vastly more complex and costly, and that’s the reason why the scene you wanted wasn’t shot. They showed Ghost with Tormund, Sam and Gilly in-frame. I’m sure they could have composed a brief scene with Ghost, Jon and Tormund - perhaps using a white furry mannequin for a closeup shot when Jon touched Ghost - for no more money. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Bronn is using a Colt .45 six-shooter crossbow… Gets 'em every time! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/329 "2019-05-07T15:19:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Are you sure about that? Because that’s (part of) what makes me so sure it’s product placement. Hundreds of articles about the cup, and none say “paper cup” or “coffee cup”. _All_ of them say “Starbucks cup”. Almost like a secret press release was leaked by the producers pointing it out with that language. There’s no logo. As has been said, calling it a “Starbuck’s cup” is much funnier than just calling it a takeout coffee cup. And a lot of it is people just quoting others. I’m sure Starbuck’s is happy with the publicity but it isn’t actually a Starbuck’s cup. It’s probably from the caterers who feed the crew on set. > [@](#): > > There’s also the fact that that frame of footage was overseen by probably 50 people during editing, not to mention the director and actors on set over the course of several hours of filming. Every prop, every costume, every hair on the actors’ heads is agonized over until it is just so. There’s no way I can see that some anachronistic trash was left in the final edit by mistake. And if it wasn’t a mistake, the only reason is paid placement. Even with that level of scrutiny, [mistakes happen](https://www.distractify.com/p/game-of-thrones-goofs), and even get into the final cut, such as Stannis’s computer charger, Jon Snow’s rubber sword, or Margaery’s “You’ve got mail” notification. (Other admittedly are just continuity errors that are left in because they think no one will notice.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/330 "2019-05-07T15:27:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > While she was sitting at the feast, watching the Lannister brothers talk and Tormund praise Jon, her expression and the music certainly suggested she was feeling a bit stabby. With her expression at the end of the episode after Missandei’s execution, there’s no doubt she intends to rain down “Fire and Blood” on King’s Landing. And no one, not Jon Snow and not Tyrion, is going to stop her. My thought is that if she does manage to get Drogon to light up the Red Keep that will set off the caches of wildfire Cersei has stashed all over the city. The question is whether the show will be nihilistic enough to go with a medieval version of Hiroshima or if this will be stopped at the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/331 "2019-05-07T15:32:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I can see how someone like that could just snap and decide that she’s surrounded by enemies and fools, and that the Westerosi are a hateful people who won’t recognize what she’s done for them. So… Burn them all, and rule by fear if you can’t win them over. Not only that, Dany fully believes that she has a “higher purpose” to taking over Westeros (whatever the cost) and than any causalities are unfortunate collateral damage and a means to a greater end. She’s been warned about this attitude a number of times. And, in fact, it’s a common theme in the show how a lot of characters want to rule for the purpose of “doing good”. But as people disagree or actively resist them, they are forced to become more brutal. The whole problem with “breaking the wheel” is that a lot of people depend on the functioning of that wheel, for better or ill. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/332 "2019-05-07T15:33:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …Even with that level of scrutiny, [mistakes happen](https://www.distractify.com/p/game-of-thrones-goofs), and even get into the final cut, such as Stannis’s computer charger, Jon Snow’s rubber sword, or Margaery’s “You’ve got mail” notification. (Other admittedly are just continuity errors that are left in because they think no one will notice.) Thanks for that link - hadn’t noticed any of those at the time! There’s a long outdoor shot in _The Fellowship of the Ring_ where you can barely see a car in the distance. It was CGI’d out for the DVD release of the film. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/333 "2019-05-07T15:37:58Z")
Anyone else think that Brienne’s “virgin shame” makes no sense at all? she’s an unmarried highborn lady, being a virgin should be something to be proud of and absolutely normal and expected of her. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/334 "2019-05-07T16:10:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone else think that Brienne’s “virgin shame” makes no sense at all? she’s an unmarried highborn lady, being a virgin should be something to be proud of and absolutely normal and expected of her. This may be so, but I can’t recall virginity being made a huge deal of in the show. High-born girls are betrothed while very young and eligible to be married as soon as they have their first period, so they don’t have a lot of opportunity to lose their virginity beforehand. Brienne’s embarrassment may not be because of her virginity itself, but because the reason for it is that she is regarded as unattractive because of her size. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/335 "2019-05-07T16:17:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > My thought is that if she does manage to get Drogon to light up the Red Keep that will set off the caches of wildfire Cersei has stashed all over the city. The question is whether the show will be nihilistic enough to go with a medieval version of Hiroshima or if this will be stopped at the last minute. Technically, Dany’s father, Aerys II stashed the wildfire all over the city. Cersei just used the ones that he stored under the Great Sept of Baelor (the ones she made for defending the city from Stannis was kept under the vault of the Alchemist’s Guild). Which actually would make it even more ironic if she unleashed the wildfire. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/336 "2019-05-07T16:27:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone else think that Brienne’s “virgin shame” makes no sense at all? she’s an unmarried highborn lady, being a virgin should be something to be proud of and absolutely normal and expected of her. At the risk of psychobabble, I think that Brienne is profoundly, tragically lonely, due to a combination of social anxiety and low estimation of her own attractiveness. She’s sublimated a lot of this loneliness into her idealism and loyalty, and hse puts up tremendous guards against losing control and relaxing because she’s worried about making herself vulnerable. Discussing her virginity strikes more deeply for her because it feels like admitting her biggest flaw: that she’s unlovable. When Jaime first comes to Winterfell this season and is nice to her, she’s suspicious, not only because of his past behavior, but also because he’s starting to break through her walls. And when he finally convinces her that she’s worth loving–something she’s never believed before–it is a life-altering moment for her. And when he leaves, it puts her back where she was before, confirms to her that she’s not worth loving after all. I like the fact that the characters on the show are so deeply fucked up. Brienne’s a badass, but she’s no different. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/337 "2019-05-07T16:27:33Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone else think that Brienne’s “virgin shame” makes no sense at all? she’s an unmarried highborn lady, being a virgin should be something to be proud of and absolutely normal and expected of her. She’s a headcase. All she’s ever cared about has been doing knight stuff, but she’s got girl parts and the associated societal expectations. I wonder if it’s ‘virgin shame’ as such, and not just being uncomfortable & unpracticed at addressing her gender because doing so would undo all she ever wanted to be. ETA: and what he said ^^ ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/338 "2019-05-07T16:28:50Z")
While I think it is likely true, why does everyone think there is wildfire stashed around the city? IIRC we hadn’t heard anything about it since the Sept of Baelor was destroyed. It was my impression that tQyburn found the caches beneath the city and placed all that he found underneath the sept. Unless there’s a conversation later that I missed the show seems to imply Cersei used it all up. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/339 "2019-05-07T16:53:32Z")
I don’t access “spoilers” because I want to see everything unfold in front of my eyes, but I don’t think I need one to predict that Daenerys’ quest for the throne is pretty much done. Two of her three dragons are dead, and the entire world will soon know that the very popular and respected Jon Snow is the rightful heir to the throne. The happy ending for me would be for those two to defeat Cersei, marry, and live happily ever after as king and queen. In Game of Thrones, however, “happy” has never been a priority. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/340 "2019-05-07T17:21:48Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > We may not have seen the last of Ghost. Just because Jon told him to go north with Tormund doesn’t mean he did so. > > And don’t forget that Nymeria is still alive and well. Ghost, Nymeria, and the rest of her wolfpack would make a formidable ally in the final battle. Maybe the Hound will be saved by wolves? I doubt the showwriters would ever do anything so cool as that with something of the original series they clearly seemed to hate. The farewell was almost comical. _waves goodbye_ “SEEYA”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=18)