# Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524 "2019-05-05T20:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/561 "2019-05-10T02:08:02Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I know people were upset that he wasn’t warging to scout the Night King, but: > [ol] > [li]We don’t know he wasn’t[/li][li]He doesn’t need to warg to scout[/li][/ol] Bran totally warg-scouted. It was just worthless from our perspective. I assume the point of that from the directors was to give Bran some role so he warged some crows and flew around and saw the Night King but it didn’t do anyone a lick of good and was worthless but “scouting” is the best spin I can give that worthless waste of time in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/562 "2019-05-10T02:54:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Bran totally warg-scouted. It was just worthless from our perspective. > > I assume the point of that from the directors was to give Bran some role so he warged some crows and flew around and saw the Night King but it didn’t do anyone a lick of good and was worthless but “scouting” is the best spin I can give that worthless waste of time in the show. I agree that the raven/crow bit was just silly (spend those CGI dollars on giving Ghost a decent send off), but I actually meant pre-battle. There was no way that the NK could have split his force and Our Heroes not be aware, assuming Bran wanted to help (and he was dedicated to stopping the NK, so he would have). Even without warging, Bran can having instant knowledge of anything. I’ve read a couple of sci-fi scenarios that pointed out whatI hadn’t thought of previously: any kind of machine that allows someone to view the past is the end of privacy, since the past starts immediately after the present instant. I don’t know how hard it is for Bran to view the past, but to repeat myself - Cersei can have no plan that Bran doesn’t know, assuming he cares to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/563 "2019-05-10T03:10:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Young Robert Baratheon was smitten with Lyanna Stark but they weren’t betrothed, IIRC. I’m pretty sure you remember wrongly. I don’t have a clip but pretty much every online source about the TV show refers to them as being betrothed. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/564 "2019-05-10T03:18:48Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I don’t know how hard it is for Bran to view the past, but to repeat myself - Cersei can have no plan that Bran doesn’t know, assuming he cares to find out. When Bran is with the Three-Eyed-Raven and they are being attacked Bran says he is not ready. The TER agrees but transfers the role anyway because there is no choice at that point. So, Bran has powers but he is still learning them and not in full control of them. We do not know his limits. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/565 "2019-05-10T03:24:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m pretty sure you remember wrongly. I don’t have a clip but pretty much every online source about the TV show refers to them as being betrothed. Lyanna Stark and Robert Baratheon were betrothed to each other. Robert tells Ned he was very much in love with Lyanna. We can only assume she did not return that love since she was apparently smitten with Rhaegar Targaryen who Robert killed. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/566 "2019-05-10T03:39:51Z")
Thanks for the correction as to Robert and Lyanna’s betrothal. As to noble houses dying out, the Japanese nobility in the bushido era allowed adoption when the male line was otherwise in danger of dying out. Makes sense to me - find a smart, capable dude who isn’t related to you and bring him into the family. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Mee-sa pumpin a prince inta the queen. I hate myself for it, but I laughed. > [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > Someone thinks so… > [The Tense Friendship Between Arya Stark and the Hound Reimagined as a 1980s TV Sitcom Spinoff](https://laughingsquid.com/arya-and-the-hound-1980s-tv-sitcom/?fbclid=IwAR37w94_gXkdSJFfPww2Pj2PYnoKBIleA2b485yz0EwrtDCn1bkORKZB_Kk) Better still - thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/567 "2019-05-10T03:53:24Z")
> [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > Someone thinks so… > [The Tense Friendship Between Arya Stark and the Hound Reimagined as a 1980s TV Sitcom Spinoff](https://laughingsquid.com/arya-and-the-hound-1980s-tv-sitcom/?fbclid=IwAR37w94_gXkdSJFfPww2Pj2PYnoKBIleA2b485yz0EwrtDCn1bkORKZB_Kk) The audio fails for me about a third of the way in. Tried three different browsers…all the same problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/568 "2019-05-10T03:58:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, Bran has powers but he is still learning them and not in full control of them. We do not know his limits. Eventually, he’ll reach the full fiber of his power. And then he will become the All-Bran. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/569 "2019-05-10T04:24:13Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > [Dany forgot about the iron fleet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahoHDU0T44I) > [@Acsenray](#): > > Wooded and mountainous See, these are the things that really seem like unforced errors. You can’t match GRRM’s storytelling ability? Okay, I can buy that. But they don’t need GRRM to avoid basic continuity errors. It’s lazy, sloppy, and reeks of contempt for their audience. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Part of it, another is that they are seriously rushing to finish the show so they can go do something else. Right, which is why they should have just handed it off to someone else. > [@RickJay](#): > > I haven’t liked Euron since the moment he stepped on screen. He’s a cartoon, and his magical ability to summon massive fleets from nowhere and appear wherever the real characters need to be in danger is just totally out of sync with the rest of the story. Oh, that’s right. Didn’t he just give a speech to like thirty Iron Islanders to start chopping down trees, and next thing you know they have this giant fleet of expertly made ships? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/570 "2019-05-10T04:27:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > When Bran is with the Three-Eyed-Raven and they are being attacked Bran says he is not ready. The TER agrees but transfers the role anyway because there is no choice at that point. > > So, Bran has powers but he is still learning them and not in full control of them. We do not know his limits. It seems to work sort of like Google. He was interested in wheelchairs so searched for that and found one that Daeron Targaryen had made for his crippled nephew (“I liked that one”) and got someone to make it for him. So he can point himself toward information now, rather than needing help like he got from the other Raven and Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/571 "2019-05-10T04:53:15Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > It seems to work sort of like Google. He was interested in wheelchairs so searched for that and found one that Daeron Targaryen had made for his crippled nephew (“I liked that one”) and got someone to make it for him. So he can point himself toward information now, rather than needing help like he got from the other Raven and Sam. We do not know how it works. We are clearly meant to think Bran has limited powers. But we do not know the full extent and we do not know how limited he is. So, writers have infinite leeway with him. He is the wildcard they can pull whenever they want. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/572 "2019-05-10T05:25:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [This article](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-chart-shows-how-many-game-of-thrones-viewers-are-hating-this-season-2019-05-08?link=sfmw_tw) details how rankings suffered in later seasons and are really bombing this season. The early seasons had the books to draw from. It seems the show has suffered since they lost source material to draw from and had to come up with their own. Season 8 may suck, but the chart from the link pretty much proves the opposite of your point. The rankings (and thus the show, if that’s how we’re measuring it) didn’t suffer in later seasons, just season 8. In fact, the average IMDB viewer rankings for the post-book seasons of 6 and 7 are just as good or better than the book based seasons. It looks like only season 4 had a better average ranking than seasons 6 and 7. It’s like they’re gymnasts who pulled off an amazing routine, then broke out for an amazing improvisation, then shit their leotards on the landing and the shit splattered all over the judges and the judges gave them a 7.9 for it. So far, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/573 "2019-05-10T06:50:19Z")
The drop in quality definitely happened during 5-8 (although the end of 6 is as good as anything the show has ever done) but I think public opinion kinda coasted on the previous quality. People won’t like to admit or think this, but they will rate stuff very much in line with how they think they’re supposed to rate it or how much they’re supposed to like it or how much they think other people like something. The series became progressively more off the rails, but public perception remained positive, and it’s only until the final season, when people are starting to openly talk about the decline, that other people finally felt comfortable rating the show more poorly. A microcosm to prove this is that 8.04 isn’t an especially bad episode compared to, say, the wight-capture episode of season 7, or the dorne plot resolution episode (the previous worse rated) and yet it’s the worst rated episode by far of the series. This, I think, is due to the fact that widespread disappointment over the resolution of the night king plot in 8.03 let people finally feel like they were safe to downrate the show, leading to an abberant rating for 8.04. If you re-polled people now, now that they think it’s safe to be able to give less than stellar ratings to the later seasons, I suspect you’d see a steady decline from 5 onwards. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/574 "2019-05-10T08:47:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How are the Martells doing? Maybe the only one left is Ellaria (maybe but she’s a Sand so…). I think it’s mentioned during the viper season that in Dorne bastards have the same rights as legitimate children. However, Dorne has a new prince, so the issue is moot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/575 "2019-05-10T10:54:43Z")
**[Moderating]** > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > … > > I’m gonna violate the no book rule here mods because > … When you know there’s a rule, the thing to do is to follow it. This is an official Warning for failure to follow moderator instructions. Post [507](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21633697&postcount=507) (by **ISiddiqui** ) was also problematic: Just because one poster is violating the rules by bringing up the books, doesn’t mean you can bring them up yourself in response. [Post 538](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21634188&postcount=538) (by **Gorsnak** ) was well-intentioned, but accidentally also included a small amount of book info. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/576 "2019-05-10T12:17:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I really do not know what happened in that writer’s room for this season…it’s like they completely lost sight of what made the show excellent and decided to fall back on easy tropes and shortcuts. Blows my mind. How do they lose sight of that? When you have a winning formula don’t mess with the formula. The original formula is akin to calculus and the people they selected to continue the story barely understand algebra. They know where the story is supposed to go but they have no idea how to get there without being ham fisted, obvious and dependent upon clichés. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/577 "2019-05-10T12:32:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Were you aware of the famous plot points, like Ned Stark death, the red wedding, etc…? Pretty much the only thing i knew was that at some point an event called “The Red Wedding” happened (without knowing what it was or who died in it), that fact that dragons existed at some point (because I saw random clips showing Naked Blond Chick riding them), and there was a lot of nudity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/578 "2019-05-10T12:44:07Z")
I don’t think the writing this season is any worse than it was last year. Better, actually. That’s not saying much because season 7 was straight up not good. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/579 "2019-05-10T13:07:31Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t think the writing this season is any worse than it was last year. Better, actually. That’s not saying much because season 7 was straight up not good. I think the difference is that you could tell yourself that they took shortcuts in season 7 to get us to a brilliant ending. And the two year wait made it seem like they were really going all out for the final season. So that buildup of expectations makes season 8 seem so much worse, when really it’s about par for the course for the last few seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/580 "2019-05-10T15:19:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Pretty much the only thing i knew was that at some point an event called “The Red Wedding” happened (without knowing what it was or who died in it), that fact that dragons existed at some point (because I saw random clips showing Naked Blond Chick riding them), and there was a lot of nudity 🙂 Naked Blond Chick? This from the oh-so-gallant defender of Arya? This from the denier of the level of casual sexism in American society? This from anyone posting on these boards today? And you wondered why I called it sickness. Now you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=30)