# Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524 "2019-05-05T20:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/41 "2019-05-06T02:47:18Z")
Is there anyone in America who wasn’t shouting for her to fly behind them and swoop down while the trebuchets were firing in the other direction? I’m on the side of those who think the writers want Cersei to win. Here’s my big prediction for next episode: the battle scenes will be stupid, Dany will be stupid, Tyrion will be stupid, Jaime will be stupid, and time will still have come to a halt. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/42 "2019-05-06T02:47:40Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You can’t tell him not to tell his freaking family. And demanding he not do it is just begging for him to do it anyways. You could head it off by suggesting a marriage with her being the one who does the primary ruling (because Jon doesn’t want to do it anyways and anyone who has spent 5 seconds with him knows that). You sure as hell can tell him that, Dany was 100% right in that conversation. The only way for it not to become an issue was if he kept his mouth shut. There was absolutely no reason anyone needed to know. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/43 "2019-05-06T02:47:42Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You can’t tell him not to tell his freaking family. And demanding he not do it is just begging for him to do it anyways. You could head it off by suggesting a marriage with her being the one who does the primary ruling (because Jon doesn’t want to do it anyways and anyone who has spent 5 seconds with him knows that). Sure you can. Ned Stark kept that secret for 17 years. Someone needs to sit Jon down and remind him of how he always fucks it up when he does something because “he has to.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/44 "2019-05-06T02:48:19Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Tyrion’s only spent like 3 years trying. Varys had never met her so I can see why he’d have second thoughts now that he has, although you do wonder why he’d plot to put her there in the first place if he didn’t know anything about her. Varys actually met her in Mereen only shortly after Tyrion did. He was going to Mereen to support her with Tyrion in tow when Jorah kidnapped Tyrion. Varys originally plotted to have her assassinated on Robert’s orders. It’s never been at all clear what convinced that she was the best hope for Westeros before meeting her. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/45 "2019-05-06T02:48:30Z")
How could she not see the boats while flying that high anyway?? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/46 "2019-05-06T02:51:33Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Why did she not do this??? Agreed. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Could we drag out Missandei’s death any longer? The moment I saw them all up on that platform, I thought, “Yeah, so she’ll get pushed off…”. > > They dragged out the editing of that final moment before her head got chopped off to the point of almost being comedic. > > Note: I liked the episode quite a bit, actually. Really solid and I like the in-between ones. I kept expecting Missandei to just jump and kill herself; it didn’t look like she was chained to the platform. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/47 "2019-05-06T02:51:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Varys actually met her in Mereen only shortly after Tyrion did. He was going to Mereen to support her with Tyrion in tow when Jorah kidnapped Tyrion. > > Varys originally plotted to have her assassinated on Robert’s orders. It’s never been at all clear what convinced that she was the best hope for Westeros before meeting her. No, Varys sent the orders, but he didn’t plot to have her killed. He knew it would be bungled and Dany would be alert after the attempt was made. Varys and Illyrio meet under the Red Keep and plotted bringing Targaryens back to power from the beginning. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YUjPBtlhBls/maxresdefault.jpg "Arya Stark | Chasing Cats | Game of Thrones (S01E05)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUjPBtlhBls&t=50) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/48 "2019-05-06T02:53:04Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > How could she not see the boats while flying that high anyway?? Maybe she didn’t notice the ballistae [edited]. Would’ve appreciated a shot showing the boats as teeny below her, worth ignoring; would’ve made the whole thing seem fairer. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > I kept expecting Missandei to just jump and kill herself; it didn’t look like she was chained to the platform. I was expecting this, too, but I was expecting it because I thought she’d want to ward off slaughter of King’s Landing, and if she took that step herself, it’d lessen the fury of her allies. But her last word was “Dracaris.” She wanted that fucking city to burn. Letting herself be decapitated, instead of leaping to her death, was the best way to get her wish. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/49 "2019-05-06T02:53:57Z")
Those are scorpions/ballista, not trebuchets. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/50 "2019-05-06T02:54:27Z")
Pretty sure the iron fleet came from around a rock, I guess they were hiding. Which is also super dumb, but that was the idea i got from that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/51 "2019-05-06T02:55:08Z")
Edited in episode title: “The Last of the Starks” That doesn’t exactly bode well considering how “The Last of the Mohicans” turned out for the Mohicans. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/52 "2019-05-06T02:55:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You sure as hell can tell him that, Dany was 100% right in that conversation. The only way for it not to become an issue was if he kept his mouth shut. There was absolutely no reason anyone needed to know. Bit tough to demand someone else live a lie, IMO. Dude just learns a massive secret about his lineage and demanding he doesn’t tell anyone else is asking for trouble. Seems completely unrealistic to indicate someone just keep their mouth shut about something that big. Now if Dany and Jon come out with it to their trusted advisers and Jon swears his loyalty to Dany, then you may have scheming, but a lot of it would be nipped in the bud - as a lot of this convo between Tyrion and Varys seems to be them thinking Dany doesn’t know this information. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/53 "2019-05-06T02:56:03Z")
If they needed to kill a dragon, they should have done it last episode. If they needed to make Euron and Cersei a real threat, and to defeat Dany’s fleet, then they could have wounded, but not killed, the remaining dragon, taking them out of the fight. And if they really wanted to do it this way, they should have earned it - have Rhaegal go out fighting… crashing into the fleet, burning and sinking several of them before he succumbs. But they probably didn’t have the budget for that. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/54 "2019-05-06T02:57:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Edited in episode title: “The Last of the Starks” > > That doesn’t exactly bode well considering how “The Last of the Mohicans” turned out for the Mohicans. Interesting. Well, Jon’s not a Stark and Bran is abdicating which is basically the end of the line. They should have Bran get someone pregnant while Sansa rules until his child comes of age. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/55 "2019-05-06T02:59:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they needed to kill a dragon, they should have done it last episode. If they needed to make Euron and Cersei a real threat, and to defeat Dany’s fleet, then they could have wounded, but not killed, the remaining dragon, taking them out of the fight. And if they really wanted to do it this way, they should have earned it - have Rhaegal go out fighting… crashing into the fleet, burning and sinking several of them before he succumbs. But they probably didn’t have the budget for that. Shocked the fuck out of me. Only saw it coming about five seconds before it happened. …thank you Hollywood for training me to see stuff like that. “Oh loook how majestic the dragons are…wait…why is this shot STILL lingering on the dragons??” ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/56 "2019-05-06T02:59:42Z")
I was really hoping Sam (I think he would be most appropriate), should have said “Now his watch has ended” for Edd (and any other Night’s Watch folk) Speaking of, guess there isn’t a lot of need for that anymore with the Night King gone and Wildlings allied (or at least a lot less of a threat) IMHO Arya could definitely get in the Red Keep, and I hope we see her do so. Jon is in D&D terms “Lawful Stupid”, though I do think he would have kept quiet had he not been confronted by Sansa and Arya. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/57 "2019-05-06T03:00:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Those are scorpions/ballista, not trebuchets. Sorry. I thought I remembered ballista but I pasted in what I saw earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/58 "2019-05-06T03:00:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they needed to kill a dragon, they should have done it last episode. If they needed to make Euron and Cersei a real threat, and to defeat Dany’s fleet, then they could have wounded, but not killed, the remaining dragon, taking them out of the fight. And if they really wanted to do it this way, they should have earned it - have Rhaegal go out fighting… crashing into the fleet, burning and sinking several of them before he succumbs. But they probably didn’t have the budget for that. Heh. Last episode, everyone was complaining that the deaths were telegraphed and staged for maximum drama, that nobody had the shocking-death-from-nowhere that characterizes GoT. I didn’t like how the ships weren’t shown before the shots came, but I absolutely liked that the death was shocking and sudden. Euron is a threat because he’s a poisonous backstabber, and a sneak attack on the dragon is the closest he can come to backstabbing it. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/59 "2019-05-06T03:02:48Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Jon is in D&D terms “Lawful Stupid”, though I do think he would have kept quiet had he not been confronted by Sansa and Arya. That’s part and parcel of her demanding his silence though. He had to seem like he was completely on her side because she was thinking he was thinking of taking her claim. It made her happy, but then Sansa and Arya were WTF, why are you selling out the North. If he backed Sansa and Arya there, Dany would have gotten pissed and thought he was trying to take the Iron Throne even though he said he didn’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/60 "2019-05-06T03:04:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Varys and Illyrio meet under the Red Keep and plotted bringing Targaryens back to power from the beginning. > > [https://youtu.be/YUjPBtlhBls?t=50](https://youtu.be/YUjPBtlhBls?t=50) At that point, however, Viserys, who is a total idiot and would make an even worse king than Robert, is still the Targaryen heir. It’s even more obscure why Varys would be plotting a Targaryen restoration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=4)