# Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524 "2019-05-05T20:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/601 "2019-05-10T19:03:32Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If they’re so amazingly good at naval combat why was their navy destroyed by Stannis during their rebellion. They go from getting the shit kicked out of them to being invincible without any new technology or massive increase in population or economic output. I maintain this is quite implausible. The only change is Euron shows up. He’s their Donald Trump! MIIGA! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/602 "2019-05-10T19:19:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That’s how they conquered the vast Swiss Empire!😉 Ok, Telperion probably doesn’t deserve to be the butt of jokes but I couldn’t help but laugh at this way-too-cheerful snark. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/603 "2019-05-10T19:36:00Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If they’re so amazingly good at naval combat why was their navy destroyed by Stannis during their rebellion. They go from getting the shit kicked out of them to being invincible without any new technology or massive increase in population or economic output. I maintain this is quite implausible. The only change is Euron shows up. Stannis was leading the combined navies of every other kingdom. They are only “invincible” at this point because there are no other intact fleets, and even if there was in an even fight they should technically be the better sailors. Of course none of this is reflected in the writing, they are just magically invincible, invisible and teleporting uber sailors. Also I don’t think before the wars they got by raiding the seven kingdoms, there are other lands to pirate. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/604 "2019-05-10T19:40:49Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Ok, Telperion probably doesn’t deserve to be the butt of jokes but I couldn’t help but laugh at this way-too-cheerful snark. I’m of Swiss descent myself. We’ve been great at defending crappy lands that nobody else wants all that much.😃 ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/605 "2019-05-10T19:47:19Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > they are just magically invincible, invisible and teleporting uber sailors. Unless they’re standing watch. But everybody gets a little sleepy on balls-to-four. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/606 "2019-05-10T20:11:35Z")
> [@Stephen King's Twitter](#): > > Suppose that Jon and Dani both die (along with Cersei) Starting at the same place as Stephen King: So few people dying in “The Long Night” sets up A LOT of people dying in #8.5 and #8.6. This is the bread and butter of the series: how a broad range of complex political relationships change as someone (frequently) dies, all because of the prevalence of systems of hereditary monarchy. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The whole Lord Gendry Baratheon scene would have worked perfectly if it had been Tyrion’s idea. The only change would have been Danerys telling Tyrion that she knows good advice when her Hand provides it. It may end up better the way it happened: Jon enjoys hangin’ with the boys while wallflower Daenerys tries to get someone to notice her by once again legitimating a man who is _de jure_ ahead of her in the line of succession for the Iron Throne with the exact words: “You are Lord Gendry Barratheon of Storm’s End, the lawful son of Robert Barratheon, because that is what I have made you.” Daenerys proceeds to pat herself on the back, saying to Tyrion: “See? You’re not the only one who’s clever,” and Tyrion immediately exchanges a significant look across the table at his (wife?) Sansa as if to say, “She doesn’t even realize what she just did…again.” Nobody wants it to end with lawyers deciding the line of succession, nobody wants it to end with priests deciding which candidate fulfills prophecies, and now nobody want to entertain the “Monty Python Ending” (my apologies for forgetting who first brought it up) where the Iron bank forecloses the kingdom. > [@Colibri](#): > > The Iron Bank imposes receivership and institutes an efficient profit-driven system of management of Westeros. “Westeros goes corporate” might be the bleakest of all endings!😃 but the series will end and Varys’ riddle about the King, The Priest and The Banker echoing Senator Roark’s Sin City musings on the nature of power, famously resolves as: “Power resides where men believe it resides.” My dark horse the Night King being killed and Gendry’s legitimization only reinforces my Arya’s unborn child is the Ahor Azai theory which I’m calling the Faces of Death ending (death, death, death, death, death, death, baby.) > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would not have thought that possible on a technical level. It’s not only possible, but so technically trivial that I thought it was more likely the coffee cup was never in the shot in the first place and had been first ADDED in post-. A LOT of cast and crew on the set and nobody noticed the anachronistic coffee was in the shot? This is so much worse than Alfonso Cuarón not having anyone who’s ever done any housework on the set of his housemaid melodrama Roma. Since suggesting it possible these things are planned commercials quickly gets "political’ and people get labeled and dismissed as conspiracy nuts, I’ll drop it, but _clearly_ there’s an incredible amout of pressure to place advertising anywhere many semi-hypnotized eyes are looking. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > This drawing of a horse pretty much sums up my feelings on the writing: [http://i65.tinypic.com/110f48i.jpg](http://i65.tinypic.com/110f48i.jpg) Yup 😃 Re: Wildfire caches: Forget wildfire, where’s the cache of dragon eggs? Jon, Gendry, his unborn child with Arya, that Targaryen blood, potential dragonriders all. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/607 "2019-05-10T20:20:28Z")
> [@eunoia](#): > > Jon, Gendry, his unborn child with Arya, that Targaryen blood, potential dragonriders all. Remind me why Gendry has Targaryen blood. Are the Baratheons a branch from the Targs? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/608 "2019-05-10T20:34:21Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Remind me why Gendry has Targaryen blood. Are the Baratheons a branch from the Targs? I don’t think we can, since it was never covered in the TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/609 "2019-05-10T20:37:17Z")
> [@eunoia](#): > > Jon enjoys hangin’ with the boys while wallflower Daenerys tries to get someone to notice her by once again legitimating a man who is _de jure_ ahead of her in the line of succession for the Iron Throne with the exact words: “You are Lord Gendry Barratheon of Storm’s End, the lawful son of Robert Barratheon, because that is what I have made you.” Daenerys proceeds to pat herself on the back, saying to Tyrion: “See? You’re not the only one who’s clever,” and Tyrion immediately exchanges a significant look across the table at his (wife?) Sansa as if to say, “She doesn’t even realize what she just did…again.” Tyrion acknowledged it was clever, and I don’t think he was just sucking up to Dany. I thought Tyrion was looking for Sansa’s reaction to Dany’s trying to one-up her by emphasizing she was the Queen and could make such decisions, and was also consolidating her power. Sansa was looking slit-eyed rather than rolling her eyes. If she though Dany was screwing up, she should be smirking rather than trying to hold her temper. Gendry isn’t a threat as an alternative contender for the throne because he no independent support (unlike Jon). He could become a threat if someone with some power decided to use him as a figurehead to rebel against Dany, but Cersei won’t do that, nor will anyone else rally to him as long is Jon is an alternative. Incidentally, when Dany asked “Who’s Lord of Storm End now?”, Jaime should know (although he wasn’t in evidence in the scene). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/610 "2019-05-10T20:38:57Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > I don’t think we can, since it was never covered in the TV show. It does. When Ned and Robert are arguing that Ned should have taken the Iron Throne Ned counters “you had the better claim”. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/611 "2019-05-10T20:42:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It does. When Ned and Robert are arguing that Ned should have taken the Iron Throne Ned counters “you had the better claim”. Oh, right, because Robert’s grandmother was a daughter of Aegon V. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/612 "2019-05-10T20:45:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Part of it, another is that they are seriously rushing to finish the show so they can go do something else. Aren’t they supposed to be the next guys running what’s left of the Star Wars movies? I feel great about where that universe is going to be headed. I’m sure the final two episodes will give everyone something to enjoy. I won’t make any guesses; I found spoilers for them. Their predictions for E3 and E4 mostly panned out, so I don’t want to inadvertently make a post like the infamous “Happy Father’s Day!” one that hit the same day of the episode where Tyrion killed Tywin. I do think it’s interesting though if GRRM will finish the last two books, and if so, will there be any significant changes from the way the show ended? ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/613 "2019-05-10T20:46:55Z")
> [@eunoia](#): > > the “Monty Python Ending” (my apologies for forgetting who first brought it up) > [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > I think it’s a clue that the final episode will be resolved by the local police bursting in and breaking the Fourth Wall, “Holy Grail”-style. **Quercus alba** in this thread, but **Loach** in last week’s 8.03 thread: > [@Game of Thrones 8.03 "The Long Night" 4/28/19 \[Show discussion\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-03-the-long-night-4-28-19-show-discussion/833190/262): > > Am I the only one hoping the series ends like Monty Python’s Holy Grail? Instead of the police stopping everything the Iron Bank comes in and forecloses on the Seven Kingdoms. The last scene can be them repossessing the Iron Throne. Still want to shout out to **Quercus alba** for: > [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > An interesting level of analysis for epidemiology nerds… (No spoilers. Any individual subject information is de-identified.) > [https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s40621-018-0174-7?fbclid=IwAR220xVIYIKVtdDNQqRz5nebfoNVyOKO2dKjStRoRrF9kU-Hg-1JCN7wsqg](https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s40621-018-0174-7?fbclid=IwAR220xVIYIKVtdDNQqRz5nebfoNVyOKO2dKjStRoRrF9kU-Hg-1JCN7wsqg) Reminded me of The (beloved) Journal of Irreproducible Results! > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Remind me why Gendry has Targaryen blood. Are the Baratheons a branch from the Targs? **Telperion** saves me from an embarrassing warning, I may need to find a cite for where this is clarified in the TV series, but the pertinent Targaryen would be three generations up from Gendry in the Barratheon family tree. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/614 "2019-05-10T20:51:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Gendry isn’t a threat as an alternative contender for the throne because he no independent support (unlike Jon). He could become a threat if someone with some power decided to use him as a figurehead to rebel against Dany, but Cersei won’t do that, nor will anyone else rally to him as long is Jon is an alternative. I sort of misspoke when I said “few people dying (in “The Long Night”)” I meant central characters. My whole deal rests on the idea a bunch of _them_ will die soon. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/615 "2019-05-10T20:52:10Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > Oh, right, because Robert’s grandmother was a daughter of Aegon V. > [@eunoia](#): > > **Telperion** saves me from an embarrassing warning, I may need to find a cite for where this is clarified in the TV series, but the pertinent Targaryen would be three generations up from Gendry in the Barratheon family tree. Thanks! I can never keep the family lines straight in my head. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/616 "2019-05-10T21:01:00Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Thanks! I can never keep the family lines straight in my head. Nobody can! That’s why we’re all dreading some courtroom ending where the Iron Throne is decided on some minutiae fresh in the writer’s mind, but buried many seasons ago in the viewer’s. Edited (cynically) to add: …that’s purposely crafted to sell Blu-ray box sets! ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/617 "2019-05-10T21:10:37Z")
We may need a lineage thread… Though a lot of these more broad questions about the world of Westeros may benefit from less limited specific threads, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/618 "2019-05-10T21:10:52Z")
> [@eunoia](#): > > I sort of misspoke when I said “few people dying (in “The Long Night”)” I meant central characters. My whole deal rests on the idea a bunch of _them_ will die soon. Yeah, Gendry isn’t really a threat as a rival for the throne as long as Jon, Dany, and Cersei are still alive. If they’re all wiped out, Dany’s legitimizing him could set him up to be the next ruler. He’s so inexperienced that normally he would just become a puppet for one of the more powerful families, but most of the ruling families have been virtually wiped out (Martells, Tyrells, Baratheons except for Gendry) or are headed by a wimp (Tullys, Arryns, Starks if we consider Bran as head). So anything could happen. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/619 "2019-05-10T21:13:13Z")
They did mention a new Dornish prince in the last episode at least, and Dorne is next to the Stormlands. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/620 "2019-05-10T22:22:44Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > We may need a lineage thread… > > Though a lot of these more broad questions about the world of Westeros may benefit from less limited specific threads, I guess. There are only two episodes left and the plot has moved beyond what happened in the books. Isn’t it time to get rid of the restrictions? What’s the point anymore? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=32)