# Game of Thrones 8.04 "The Last of the Starks" 5/5/2019 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524 "2019-05-05T20:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/81 "2019-05-06T03:41:44Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Bah. There will be no big battle. They already set that up burning King’s Landing is a bad idea. And while I appreciate the tension, it’s too late for Dany to be fighting the Starks. That won’t happen. > > Jamie dies killing Cirsei, KL surrenders, both Jon and Dany forsake the iron throne, “breaking the wheel” and start up some type of democracy. A Snowflake falls in KL, timejump after winter, and everybody is living happy ever after, with Brienne looking after her son little Jamie. > > Any idea of anything but happy endings and fan service went out the window last episode and was further cemented this one. > > These guys are auditioning for Star Wars, no way this ends up with an effed up dark ending that most of the audience doesn’t want to see. “If you think this has a happy ending…you haven’t been paying attention.” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/82 "2019-05-06T03:44:20Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Tyrion says that 8 people know. > > Sam, Bran, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, and Varys are only seven. They know that Dany knows. Which makes it even sillier not to explore the marriage idea further by Varys. I mean he just jumps to knock her off. These are supposed to be best schemers in the show, right? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/83 "2019-05-06T03:44:37Z")
Once Grey Worm and Missandei started planning to buy a beach condo in Narth in episode two, I knew one of them (but not both) was a goner. It just took one more episode than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/84 "2019-05-06T03:44:42Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Its not really hard to imagine, Dany’s fleet did not have a whole lot of choice in where they were going to approach KL Ocean is still a big place. WWII German U-boats knew where shipping originated and where it was to arrive and still had a hard time finding that shipping (they did, of course, but it was a lot harder than you might think). But TV so they get a pass on reality to some extent. Thing is, Euron is near mystical in his ability to intercept ships and they never seem able to see him coming. I mean, if he can intercept so well then presumably he can see them and if he can see them then they can see him. And in this case, since they had air cover, the idea Euron could sneak up on them, in daylight, under clear skies, is beyond ridiculous. > [@](#): > > Famous last words, we really dont know if the dragons actually seen the ships and said ,meh. It was up to Dany to see them and target prioritize. Dany was flying on Drogon. Also, we are told dragons are very intelligent. They are not mindless drones circling the fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/85 "2019-05-06T03:46:07Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Really? Then why are only the secondary characters dying and the main ones are all miraculously surviving? You do realize this isn’t the last episode? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/86 "2019-05-06T03:46:08Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Really? Then why are only the secondary characters dying and the main ones are all miraculously surviving? Beeeecaussse this is drama and not a random RPG encounter? “Roll to see who dies guys.”…oops sorry Dany. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/87 "2019-05-06T03:47:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Thing is, Euron is near mystical in his ability to intercept ships and they never seem able to see him coming. To be fair, Theon was able to sneak onto one of his ships in the middle of his fleet and rescue Yara, his most valuable captive, so he’s not infallible. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/88 "2019-05-06T03:49:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I agree in retrospect we’re supposed to understand that Varys meant the assassination plot to fail. But its failure was a pretty dicey proposition. How did Varys know that Jorah had become so smitten by Danaerys that he would decide to protect her rather than just be on his merry way once he received his pardon? How did he know that Jorah would arrive just in time to prevent Danaerys from being poisoned? If Jorah had decided to go off to take a leak at an inopportune time, she would have been dead. The whole thing depended on Varys being able to predict everyone’s actions and locations perfectly from a thousand miles away. Sorry, but this kind of thing, and Euron’s ability to be wherever he needs to be, has to be forgiven. Screenwriters are creative people, but they have to write about people who are not them and whose experience they cannot possibly fully understand. They cannot write geniuses, except for geniuses to have brilliant plans that always work. Varys is portrayed as the best schemer in Westeros. Euron is the greatest naval mind in Westeros. It’s really difficult to get their shit to work without just making it work because they are geniuses at what they do best. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/89 "2019-05-06T03:49:46Z")
The ballistas did more damage to those ships than actual cannons would have. Holy moly those are some magic arrows. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/90 "2019-05-06T03:50:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > To be fair, Theon was able to sneak onto one of his ships in the middle of his fleet and rescue Yara, his most valuable captive, so he’s not infallible. Yes, the only people who really understand war on the seas are the Greyjoys, so it would make sense that they would totally dominate everyone else tactically and only be a threat to each other. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/91 "2019-05-06T03:51:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > To be fair, Theon was able to sneak onto one of his ships in the middle of his fleet and rescue Yara, his most valuable captive, so he’s not infallible. Thats because he activated the plot invisibility spell. 🙂 BTW where is the Theon Sister? Why wasnt she and her army going with them to the island?? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/92 "2019-05-06T03:52:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Once Grey Worm and Missandei started planning to buy a beach condo in Narth in episode two, I knew one of them (but not both) was a goner. It just took one more episode than I expected. Yeah. I have a group that comes over to watch and that scene had pretty much everyone blurting out that one or the other (or both) are dead. I’m just not really getting why Cersei & Co. got Missandei? I mean, Missandei is ultimately just a functionary. A translator. Did Cersei somehow know Missandei is important to Daenerys? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/93 "2019-05-06T03:52:55Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > “If you think this has a happy ending…you haven’t been paying attention.” All that got shot to hell when they ran out of source material. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/94 "2019-05-06T03:57:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, the only people who really understand war on the seas are the Greyjoys, so it would make sense that they would totally dominate everyone else tactically and only be a threat to each other. Stannis destroyed the Greyjoy fleet when they rebelled against Robert. The Reach, the Stormlands, and the Crownlands all have a ton of prime harbors. THere’s no reason the Greyjoys, in canon or in meta analysis, would dominate everyone so easily. It’s just for storytelling purposes. Which is why last season was so disappointing and this season isn’t anything great. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/95 "2019-05-06T03:58:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, the only people who really understand war on the seas are the Greyjoys, so it would make sense that they would totally dominate everyone else tactically and only be a threat to each other. A) They may be the best at fighting in the open sea but that doesn’t mean ships cannot see them before they are in the range of ballistas (maybe 500 yards on a good day). B) Dany & co. have air support. Something no one else has. A HUGE advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/96 "2019-05-06T04:00:38Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > All that got shot to hell when they ran out of source material. IMO. Edit: ooops forgot books dont exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/97 "2019-05-06T04:04:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You do realize this isn’t the last episode? I do. There are two left, and the preview for the next episode doesn’t look any more eventful than this one. That leaves one episode for a main character bloodbath? I don’t think so. Even Tyrion didn’t die and he should have looked like this. ![](https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOWI1NHN0dWdwbTJ1dDR1ZXI3b2FyeTZjb3ZmNWpyYTBjdXp4ZWpjMSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/xUPGcIb6MUmPXS0QCY/giphy.gif "Dying Season 1 GIF by American Gods - Find & Share on GIPHY") IMO if your last name isn’t Lannister and you’re a main character, you’re probably pretty safe. King’s Landing is not gonna burn, but I bet Euron and his boats do. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/98 "2019-05-06T04:16:46Z")
As far as I can tell those ballistas don’t have night vision sights on them. What she should do is wait until nightfall then hit random towers with sneak dragon attacks out of the darkness. But that won’t happen ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/99 "2019-05-06T04:22:18Z")
Forgot to mention the “Mouth of Sauron scene homage”…at least the initial shot. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524/100 "2019-05-06T04:23:37Z")
Even without night vision, shooting at muzzle flashes is not a bad way to take out people shooting at you. A dragon letting loose will take out one ballista but all the others will fire in that direction. Since Dany usually does stupid things, don’t be surprised if she loses her last dragon with exactly this idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-04-the-last-of-the-starks-5-5-2019-show-discussion/833524.md?page=6)