# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/181 "2019-05-13T15:33:31Z")
> [@Steve\_McQwark](#): > > I think this is it - her mind was made up before she got there. When she’s sitting on the dragon as the bells are ringing, you could see her bloodlust was high. She was angry and exhilarated and glaring at the Red Keep where she knew Cersei was. This was Daenerys without a governor. Jorah is dead. Missandei is dead. Jon has pulled away from her. Grey Worm also wants to burn them all. So, dracarys it is. It would be one thing if her rage led her to shoot for the Red Keep and kill Cersei. But instead, she started torching the city, street-by-street, building-by-building. What led her to do that? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/182 "2019-05-13T15:33:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What was up with the weird ass helmets the Lannister forces had? I don’t think they wore those before. If you mean the soldiers at the gates of the city, that was the Golden Company’s weird ass helmets. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/183 "2019-05-13T15:37:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Oh, that reminds me, when did Davos become the “world’s greatest smuggler”? It felt as out of left field to me as Sansa being the smartest person Arya has ever known. That’s his backstory. He was a smuggler, and when the Tyrells were starving out Stannis and Storm’s end during Robert’s Rebellion, Davos smuggled onions into the city to keep them from starving. For this, Stannis cut off Davos’s fingertips for breaking the law, and then also gave him a lordship as reward for saving Storm’s End. Davos chose an onion as his sigil, and that’s why he’s also sometimes called “The Onion Knight”. He also smuggled Mellisandre and her shadow baby into the sewers beneath Storm’s End during the War of the Five Kings. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/184 "2019-05-13T15:37:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Oh, that reminds me, when did Davos become the “world’s greatest smuggler”? It felt as out of left field to me as Sansa being the smartest person Arya has ever known. That is his profession, from about season 2. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/185 "2019-05-13T15:39:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It would be one thing if her rage led her to shoot for the Red Keep and kill Cersei. But instead, she started torching the city, street-by-street, building-by-building. What led her to do that? She kept saying that the folks in King’s Landing were siding with Cersei because they weren’t rioting in the streets and agitating for Dany to be Queen and Tyrion had to remind her that they were afraid. So I can easily see her going back to that idea that everyone was complicit. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/186 "2019-05-13T15:40:48Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > If you mean the soldiers at the gates of the city, that was the Golden Company’s weird ass helmets. No, I mean the Lannisters inside the city. I guess I just never noticed those [visors covering their eyes](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/1b/3b/881b3b0b7b8b87c29cd219713a3b299f.jpg) hinged outwards like wings. It looked weird to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/187 "2019-05-13T15:42:48Z")
> [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > My prediction: > Dany rightly perceives Sansa as her betrayer and most dangerous rival and flies north with intent to nuke Winterfell. > Bran does some Vulcan mind-melding with Drogon, which gives the heartbroken Ser Brienne opportunity to slay herself a dragon as revenge for her lost love, of course, dying heroically in the process, gasping out her sworn oath to the Starks one last time (cue swelling music and tugged heartstrings). > Dany ragefully rushes Bran and gets choked to death by Mr. Tree. > Arya shows up to tell Gendry that she’s had enough of the assassin life and is ready to settle down and be a Lady. > Jon and Tyrion pick up the pieces in Kings Landing and put together a new constitutional monarchy with its capital at Highgarden, where Bronn is sworn in as new Lord Mayor. > Kings Landing is left as a ruin. > Jon rules a long time, but dies without issue, leaving King Gendry as the first monarch of the House Stargarython dynasty. > > Eh…no worse than any other likely outcomes… > Prove me wrong. 🙂 Jaimes hand is found in the rubble. At this point Tyrion is no more inclined to justify his actions then Dany will be. He dies a very anti-climatic death and because he backed the wrong horse (not that there is a right one) he wont give a shit. Millions of people moan on Twitter. The Burlington Bar people who are probably very conflicted by the last ep will be even more confused. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/188 "2019-05-13T15:45:15Z")
While not a STRAIGHT metaphor for American jingoism (This is a character driven show and not as much a metaphor driven one) its so very AMERICAN that the reaction to this ep and DnDs scathing indictment of war, and not knowing you’re backing the wrong horse (we will see more of that next ep)…is that the general public reaction to this ep is “BuT JaimEEss arc!!” ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/189 "2019-05-13T15:47:15Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > Tyrion and Davos are dead men if they aren’t smart enough to get the hell out of there. So, Tyrion will probably stick around. Davos may think Jon can save him, though. There are no bread crumbs that I see that lead to Davos. He told Tyrion how to access the castle, and probably arranged for the boat, but how would anyone think to ask that that even happened? Hell, they aren’t likely to find Cersei and Jamie’s bodies, buried under tons of rock. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Oh, that reminds me, when did Davos become the “world’s greatest smuggler”? It felt as out of left field to me as Sansa being the smartest person Arya has ever known. If you want someone to do you a favor that could conceivably get them burned alive, a little flattery is never out of line. And I belive it is established that he is at least a very good smuggler. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/190 "2019-05-13T15:49:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > By the way, what is the significance of the “pale horse”? It vaguely rings a bell, but nothing more… It’s from that song from the 80s: “I’m Arya, on a pale horse I ride Dany’s wanted dead or alive Wanted dead or alive” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/191 "2019-05-13T15:52:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > By the way, what is the significance of the “pale horse”? It vaguely rings a bell, but nothing more… Book of Revelation 6:8a (KJV - because it’s poetic): “And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/192 "2019-05-13T16:01:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course he did. Jon is the only reason that army could even have been there. No Jon, no alliance, no army at the gates. > > Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics. Eh, even if the army had never shown up, the result would have played out the same way. Dragon single-handedly wipes out the iron fleet, all the castle ballista, and then the red keep. Jon’s army accomplished absolutely nothing to that outcome - all the castle defenders they fought would have been torched anyway. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/193 "2019-05-13T16:02:35Z")
> [@gupwalla](#): > > In their own minds, Cersei and Jaime were the tragic romantic heroes of their own story. They died like Aida and Radames, which has its own kind of scary beauty. I was very okay with their fate at the end. It adds to Tyrion’s tragedy, too. This is not a happy story. It’s not supposed to be. The story of Westeros is a story of neverending war and conquest and the common people getting perpetually shit on. The kings and queens and generals and factions come and go but it’s always the same. The show takes its name from the phrase “In the game of thrones, you win or you die.” The maximum possible number of winners is one, so that means death for a lot of other people. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/194 "2019-05-13T16:06:36Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That’s his backstory. He was a smuggler, and when the Tyrells were starving out Stannis and Storm’s end during Robert’s Rebellion, Davos smuggled onions into the city to keep them from starving. For this, Stannis cut off Davos’s fingertips for breaking the law, and then also gave him a lordship as reward for saving Storm’s End. Davos chose an onion as his sigil, and that’s why he’s also sometimes called “The Onion Knight”. He also smuggled Mellisandre and her shadow baby into the sewers beneath Storm’s End during the War of the Five Kings. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is his profession, from about season 2. He is a well established smuggler, agreed. But “world’s greatest”? I’ve always interpreted the show’s presentation of Davos as a pretty good smuggler. > [@Folacin](#): > > If you want someone to do you a favor that could conceivably get them burned alive, a little flattery is never out of line. And I belive it is established that he is at least a very good smuggler. That’s fair, but Davos doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who would appreciate flattery. I would have thought his reaction would be along the lines of “Not even top 10; I’m just a guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/195 "2019-05-13T16:20:47Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Pretty sure Davos smuggled Jaime _into_ King’s Landing. And yeah, probably the boat, too. But he didn’t though. Jamie just walked up there with everyone else. He was no more smuggled into King’s Landing than Arya and the Hound were. Less so because he never actually made it in before the doors closed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/196 "2019-05-13T16:23:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Arya had spent seasons and seasons deadening herself to decency and kindness, to kill without qualm, and all of a sudden she decides to be heroic to strangers. Arya spent seasons doing nothing but witnessing the suffering of the common people in wartime. This totally fit her arc. And failed to accept the Faceless Man’s credo of killing without remorse anyone targeted by someone paying for it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/197 "2019-05-13T16:28:13Z")
I was trying to figure out why the instant travel annoys me so much, and it’s because the foundation of the show was slow travel. We got almost an entire season of Arya & The Hound traveling from King’s Landing to the Twins, but now between episodes whole armies can march from Winterfell to King’s Landing? How long did it to take Brienne and Jaime to get to King’s Landing? If we hadn’t had so many examples of it taking the better part of a season to traverse the continent, it wouldn’t be so jarring to see armies (so you know they’re on foot) traveling up and down the continent in between episodes or even scenes. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/198 "2019-05-13T16:29:12Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > But he didn’t though. Jamie just walked up there with everyone else. He was no more smuggled into King’s Landing than Arya and the Hound were. Less so because he never actually made it in before the doors closed. The entire point of the convo between Tyrion and Davos was to set-up the dingy to be on the beach to facilitate Jaime and Cersei’s escape. It wasn’t about smuggling Jamie in, Jamie had already been unchained and “escaped” to return to Kings Landing. It was about making sure he had a way to escape if he made it down through the keep (presumably with Cersei). If they didn’t have that convo, everyone would be complaining about how did Jaime know that route existed out of the keep and it was awful lucky there was a boat just sitting there for him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/199 "2019-05-13T16:32:02Z")
I have to think there might have been some supernatural force putting that horse where it was. We’re supposed to believe that a bleeming horse would survive that conflagration, not be spooked or injured, and calmly let Arya ride it? We weren’t even hearing moans of survivors, the destruction had been so complete. Only Arya’s plot armor saved her. So I’m thinking the Horse came to her after the battle was over. Perhaps the Lord of Light is still interfering, or somehow it was sent by the faceless men, or something. Or maybe Bran warged into it and went looking for her. But I can’t believe Arya would wake up and find a perfectly intact white horse just standing there waiting for her to ride it. As for why she needs a horse, my guess is that so she can ride out of King’s Landing and on to Dragonstone where she will attempt to kill Daeneris. I don’t see Arya just walking out of that carnage and not attempting to kill the person who caused it. I think the change we saw in her in this episode is that she went from being a person consumed with revenge for her own sake to a normal Stark, but one who realizes that Daeneris must die and she’s maybe the only one who could pull it off. Not for revenge, but for the good of the people. In fact, her arc is the opposite of Daeneris’. Daeneris started wanting to do the right thing, but tragically wound up consumed with rage and following the footsteps of her father and brother. Arya, on the hand, spent the series consumed with rage and an intent to kill a lot of people, but ended the story by regaining her humanity. That doesn’t mean she’ll live happily ever after, but it’s interesting that Arya lost her blood lust as Daeneris was consumed by hers. I still think we could be in for a twist with Tyrion. For example, he is tried and convicted like Varys, but when Daeneris tells Drogon to kill him, Drogon ignores her. Because Tyrion is also a Targaryan. Or, Jon Snow and Daeneris die together, and Tyrion winds up on the Iron Throne. Or we get a scene with Tyrion and Gendry where Tyrion says, “The people will never accept a dwarf on the throne. You look the part, and you are a good man. Take the job, and I will be your hand and show you how to rule.” Arya Stark then walks up to Gendry and says, “I will help. I’m no lady, but I am a Stark, and a Stark/Baratheon alliance is what the realm needs.” Thus fulfilling Robert’s comment to Ned way back in episode 1 of season 1 that a Stark and a Baratheon should marry for the good of the kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/200 "2019-05-13T16:35:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It would be one thing if her rage led her to shoot for the Red Keep and kill Cersei. But instead, she started torching the city, street-by-street, building-by-building. What led her to do that? Sexual frustration after being denied by her nephew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=11)