# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/221 "2019-05-13T17:23:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > One thing we haven’t really talked much about is the Daeneris/Jon Snow love angle […] there is zero chemistry between the actors. > > Anyone else feel the same way? Yep. Zero chemistry. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > We weren’t even hearing moans of survivors, the destruction had been so complete. Only Arya’s plot armor saved her. I assume it’s the same as the battle for Winterfell: Make it look like every single person (except all the named characters!) died in the battle, and then next episode reveal that instead of everyone dying, only half died. I expect a similar reveal next week. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/222 "2019-05-13T17:23:46Z")
All of the soldiers were killing, but wasn’t it Jon’s own Northmen who were doing the raping and pillaging? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/223 "2019-05-13T17:25:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > There’s no evidence Sansa wants to be anything but Queen in the North, and she has no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne. Sansa has never wanted anything more than to be Queen. Of everything. From the child that went off to Kings Landing to the wise leader she’s become, the Iron throne has always been her goal. And Cersei had no legitimate claim to the throne, either. She just took over when Tommen failed his first flying lesson. Might makes right in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/224 "2019-05-13T17:28:30Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Sansa has never wanted anything more than to be Queen. Of everything. From the child that went off to Kings Landing to the wise leader she’s become, the Iron throne has always been her goal. I disagree. When she was a child, she wanted the idea of being queen. Now that she’s grown up (and seen what being queen is like), she only wants the North for the North. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/225 "2019-05-13T17:29:23Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > All of the soldiers were killing, but wasn’t it Jon’s own Northmen who were doing the raping and pillaging? It was. The Unsullied were just murdering, and the Dothraki look completely different. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/226 "2019-05-13T17:30:20Z")
Game Revealed is up on YT. Fave quotes so far. Benioff: Up til now Dubrovnik has been the stand-in for Kings Landing. The good people of Dubrovnik did not want us to destroy their city. Emilia: (Re: Danys turn to the dark side) We all face moral conundrums. You can say ‘walk away from the chocolate cake’, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to. Actually thats not a moral conundrum. Eat as much fucking chocolate cake as you want to. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/227 "2019-05-13T17:30:41Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You do realise the details of the last three episodes were leaked weeks ago? Really? When, where, and how do we know it’s not baloney? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/228 "2019-05-13T17:31:03Z")
Sansa may have started the series wanting to be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, but her experiences in King’s Landing have probably soured those desires for good. She seems to want to simply rule in the North and leave the southron politicians to themselves (as long as they leave the North alone too). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/229 "2019-05-13T17:32:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Arya spent seasons doing nothing but witnessing the suffering of the common people in wartime. This totally fit her arc. > > And failed to accept the Faceless Man’s credo of killing without remorse anyone targeted by someone paying for it. Perhaps I overstated her coldness, but it didn’t feel natural at all to me. She rides all the way down to KL – days and days on horseback with the Hound – and then, at the last minute, right before hell’s about to break loose, she’s convinced by him to abandon her quest for vengeance, and then wanders around the city aimlessly, finally sort of deciding to help people, and failing? Not only did it not feel natural to me, but I didn’t see what purpose it served for the story. I don’t think it told us anything new about Arya, unless it’s just that she’s indecisive and chose the exact wrong moment to try and abandon vengeance. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/230 "2019-05-13T17:32:29Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > All of the soldiers were killing, but wasn’t it Jon’s own Northmen who were doing the raping and pillaging? We only saw one doing it, as far as I know. I don’t think it’s meant to make any particular statement about Northmen in particular, but just about bloodlust and war in general, and reinforcing Jon’s reaction and horror to what happened as he murdered the guy on the spot. Grey Worm gave in to bloodlust and raping and pillaging is what the Dothraki do. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/231 "2019-05-13T17:36:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Really? When, where, and how do we know it’s not baloney? It did, but I’ll note that multiple endings have been leaked and I believe that multiple endings were filmed. If you really want to know, PM and I’ll tell you where to look. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/232 "2019-05-13T17:38:22Z")
I know we don’t really have a specific no leaks rule in this thread… but we’re one week away from the show ending. Can we not use this thread to talk about and point to leaks? I feel like if people want to discuss the leaked ending early that could probably be its own thread. And for fucks sake, please don’t be one of those assholes who reads leaks and then tries to prove how smart you are by “predicting” the ending. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/233 "2019-05-13T17:38:38Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I disagree. When she was a child, she wanted the idea of being queen. Now that she’s grown up (and seen what being queen is like), she only wants the North for the North. Early on, she wanted to be the king’s wife, I think, more than she wanted to be queen. Of course, she has been thought a lot, and changed a lot. Now, I am not so sure. She certainly seems comfortable being the queen of the North, who says she doesn’t want the whole enchillada? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/234 "2019-05-13T17:42:32Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It was. The Unsullied were just murdering, and the Dothraki look completely different. Well, the Unsullied arn’t going to rape, and the Dothraki were set to rampage. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/235 "2019-05-13T17:43:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Perhaps I overstated her coldness, but it didn’t feel natural at all to me. She rides all the way down to KL – days and days on horseback with the Hound – and then, at the last minute, right before hell’s about to break loose, she’s convinced by him to abandon her quest for vengeance, and then wanders around the city aimlessly, finally sort of deciding to help people, and failing? Not only did it not feel natural to me, but I didn’t see what purpose it served for the story. I don’t think it told us anything new about Arya, unless it’s just that she’s indecisive and chose the exact wrong moment to try and abandon vengeance. I saw her change of heart as a reasonable reaction to the changed situation. She was well into KL before Dany went all Dracarys. It is reasonable to abandon the idea of killing someone who is almost certainly already dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/236 "2019-05-13T17:47:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Perhaps I overstated her coldness, but it didn’t feel natural at all to me. She rides all the way down to KL – days and days on horseback with the Hound – and then, at the last minute, right before hell’s about to break loose, she’s convinced by him to abandon her quest for vengeance, and then wanders around the city aimlessly, finally sort of deciding to help people, and failing? Not only did it not feel natural to me, but I didn’t see what purpose it served for the story. I don’t think it told us anything new about Arya, unless it’s just that she’s indecisive and chose the exact wrong moment to try and abandon vengeance. That’s why I think she’s got yet another role to play, because the only purpose for her to wind up in King’s Landing was so that she could see the destruction Daeneris caused up close and personal. They spent a lot of time with Arya trying to save poor women and children, only to see them die horribly. So, here’s her arc in the last episode: She goes to King’s Landing with the sole purpose of killing Cersei Lannister. But once she gets there and sees the horror and destruction going on around her, something snaps and it happens when Sandor tells her sincerely not to go further because she’ll die. So she finally backs down and gives up her quest to finish her list. So she tries to escape but in so doing runs across all sorts of innocent people who she tries to save and fails. This sets her up to be perfectly motivated to kill Daeneris. And she’s in the right place, and she has a horse she can use to get to Dragonstone or wherever she needs to be. So while Arya didn’t actually DO anything of import at King’s Landing, her presence there was necessary for her character development. That’s the story I’m sticking to until it’s proven totally wrong next week. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/237 "2019-05-13T17:47:50Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The pale horse that Arya rides off on is the same horse that the late leader of the Golden Company was on. Very distinctive nose markings. We saw the horse get knocked down when the gates blew down behind the GC, but it must have survived. > > It’s GoT, they didn’t re-use the same horse because they couldn’t afford two horses. On the other hand, I can’t see how the horse is going to do anything in the one episode that’s left. > > So I guess it’s just an Easter egg for people who were paying attention. I paid attention on my second watch. Like you, I looked at the nose markings. I too am wondering why they insisted so much on this horse. But indeed I can’t see how it could matter. Maybe Daenerys will make it a senator? I watched the episode a first time just before going to work, so I didn’t have time and fast forwarded quite a bit. It’s even more brutal on rewatch, I had missed many scenes of devastation. I didn’t realize it the first time : Varys was trying to poison Danaerys, right? And have we ever seen Cersei so emotional? I don’t think she has ever been, even when her children died. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/238 "2019-05-13T17:48:05Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > I saw her change of heart as a reasonable reaction to the changed situation. She was well into KL before Dany went all Dracarys. It is reasonable to abandon the idea of killing someone who is almost certainly already dead. Specially when you are just as likely to die as well. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/239 "2019-05-13T17:54:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Really? When, where, and how do we know it’s not baloney? Since they have pretty much described the broadcast events as the occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/240 "2019-05-13T17:55:03Z")
It would be nice if we dispensed with the extended discussion of possible spoilers [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=13)