# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/241 "2019-05-13T17:56:00Z")
Dragonstone is an island, not reachable by horse. Speaking of Arya’s horse, my wife thinks it was the same one the leader of the Golden Company was sitting on in the beginning of the battle. Did anybody else catch that, or can confirm? If so, what’s the significance? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/242 "2019-05-13T17:57:45Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Early on, she wanted to be the king’s wife, I think, more than she wanted to be queen. Of course, she has been thought a lot, and changed a lot. > > Now, I am not so sure. She certainly seems comfortable being the queen of the North, who says she doesn’t want the whole enchillada? Because she thinks the south is full of snakes and betrayers. Everything she experienced outside of the North was horrible. The rulers were horrible, the court was full of schemers, etc. I think she learned a lot of lessons, one of them being that she belongs in the north. The arc of her character was that she was the spoiled little rich girl who didn’t want power - she wanted pageantry and gallant knights and beautiful dresses and glorious galas and all the stuff that little girls think kings and queens do. She had no time for the values of the north - stoicism, honor, hard work, etc. But then she actually wound up in the court of the king, and discovered that it’s really about naked lust, raw power, scheming, backstabbing, murder, etc. Then she was repeatedly brutalized and terrified as she made her way back north, which disabused her of her childish beliefs and made her the strong woman she is now. So the irony is that the only girl in Winterfell who hated being there winds up as the Lady of Winterfell and probably Queen of the North. A perfectly fitting end to her arc. Jon Snow’s arc so far is that he’s the one leader of men who never wanted to lead anyone. He just keeps stumbling into situations that elevate him more until soon he’s de-facto leader of half the people in Westeros. So his arc should take him to the Iron Throne. But GRRM might have been planning a fakeout on that one. We’ll have to see. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/243 "2019-05-13T17:58:32Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Dragonstone is an island, not reachable by horse. > > Speaking of Arya’s horse, my wife thinks it was the same one the leader of the Golden Company was sitting on in the beginning of the battle. Did anybody else catch that, or can confirm? If so, what’s the significance? Someone else said so earlier in the thread also, no idea of the significance but apparently it was the same one. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/244 "2019-05-13T18:00:36Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > But he didn’t though. Jamie just walked up there with everyone else. He was no more smuggled into King’s Landing than Arya and the Hound were. Less so because he never actually made it in before the doors closed. He made it into King’s Landing, through the front gate with the rest of the refugees. The doors you see closing in front of him are to the Red Keep. The Hound and Arya made it in just before those doors closed. Seems to me that if you have the city surrounded you could have kept more refugees from streaming in. It also wasn’t clear which gate the refugees were coming into, since the Golden Company was in front of the main gate. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/245 "2019-05-13T18:09:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Dragonstone is an island, not reachable by horse. It’s reachable by horse in the sense that you need a horse to get you quickly to the place you’d have to go to get out to the island. But for the show’s purposes, I think showing her with a horse is explanation enough if she suddenly apears in Dragonstone. They’ve ignored far worse problems than, “How did Arya get across the water?” Hell, she could just kill one of the unsullied as they are transported back, take his face, and use that to travel back to the island with the soldiers. Since there are a few ways she could do it, I don’t think we need an explanation. Also, I still think the horse was _provided_ for her by the same mysterious forces that seem to be pushing everyone. Maybe it’s the faceless God, or the Lord of Light, or Bran warging into the horse. But it would be a mighty big coincidence for what is probably the only horse to survive the battle to be standing next to Arya as she wakes up, and for it to be totally calm and everything. But maybe not. Could just be a ‘get this story wrapped!’ shortcut. > [@](#): > > Speaking of Arya’s horse, my wife thinks it was the same one the leader of the Golden Company was sitting on in the beginning of the battle. Did anybody else catch that, or can confirm? If so, what’s the significance? Could just be an easter egg. If there was going to be a horse there at all, you’d think it would be a Dothraki horse, since they were in King’s Landing by the hundreds and at least one or two Dothraki should have been killed. I’m not sure why the dead Golden Company Commander’s horse would run INTO a burning city. So that leaves open the possibility that some unseen force made it go to her. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/246 "2019-05-13T18:12:04Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I didn’t realize it the first time : Varys was trying to poison Danaerys, right? Yes. He had enlisted the kitchen girl to do it. That’s why he was concerned that Danaerys wasn’t eating. What I couldn’t figure out was who he was writing the messages concerning Jon’s parentage to, and how he was going to smuggle them out. I first I thought that if he thought she wasn’t fit to sit on the Iron Throne he should have waited until she had wiped out Cersei, but then realized that he though that it was more important to avoid burning King’s Landing. But it might be dicey for Jon’s troops alone to take King’s Landing, not only without a dragon but without the Unsullied or the Dothraki (who might not follow Jon if Danaerys was gone). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/247 "2019-05-13T18:15:54Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Did Daenerys actually have any right to make Gendry a non-bastard lord? If she doesn’t actually consolidate her power, that all goes away, right? It has been mentioned a couple times in the series that the king could legitimize a bastard. Ramsay Bolton was legitimized this way. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/248 "2019-05-13T18:19:14Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes. He had enlisted the kitchen girl to do it. Was this in this episode? I don’t remember seeing that. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/249 "2019-05-13T18:22:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It has been mentioned a couple times in the series that the king could legitimize a bastard. Ramsay Bolton was legitimized this way. But at the time, Dany was only claiming to be queen. If she doesn’t win the throne, then she was never actually queen, so all of her pronouncements carried no weight. If Arya tears off Grey Worm’s face and sticks Daenerys with the pointy end before… some point, the crowning, maybe?.. then nothing Dany did, including legitimizing Gendry, is binding. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/250 "2019-05-13T18:23:43Z")
> [@Steve\_McQwark](#): > > I think this is it - her mind was made up before she got there. When she’s sitting on the dragon as the bells are ringing, you could see her bloodlust was high. She was angry and exhilarated and glaring at the Red Keep where she knew Cersei was. This was Daenerys without a governor. Jorah is dead. Missandei is dead. Jon has pulled away from her. Grey Worm also wants to burn them all. So, dracarys it is. I’m not sure she was sure in her own mind she was going to go all Blood and Fire before the battle. But I think that in the heat of the moment (pun intended) she snapped emotionally. This was really laid out earlier in her conversation with Jon. She’s given up hope that the Westerosi will ever love her, so she must rule by fear. And burning the city will certainly put fear into anyone who survives. She’s also realized, I think, that when this is all over she will have to eliminate Jon. When he doesn’t reciprocate her kiss, she understands she’s lost him. She no longer cares about his opinion. As long as he lives, he will be a threat to her rule, so if she takes the throne he’s toast. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/251 "2019-05-13T18:25:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Was this in this episode? I don’t remember seeing that. Yes. Very first scene. She comes in as he is writing a message to someone revealing Jon’s parentage and she tells him Danaerys isn’t eating and that the soldiers are watching her. It wasn’t absolutely obvious to me on first watching but on rewatching it’s clear. It’s not exactly clear how Dany found out. She knows before Tyrion tells her who it was. Maybe she toasted the kitchen girl earlier to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/252 "2019-05-13T18:28:56Z")
HAHAHAHA oh God…the Burlington Bar reactions are everything I hoped they would be… “YEEEEahhhh…hh…h…should I be cheering? Are we the baddies?? Am I a bad person for cheering all these years when she roasted people alive???” ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/253 "2019-05-13T18:29:12Z")
Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through. I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn’t happen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/254 "2019-05-13T18:29:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes. Very first scene. She comes in as he is writing a message to someone revealing Jon’s parentage and she tells him Danaerys isn’t eating and that the soldiers are watching her. It wasn’t absolutely obvious to me on first watching but on rewatching its clear. Oh ok, I saw that. I thought she meant the soldiers were watching her spying on Danaerys. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/255 "2019-05-13T18:30:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Was this in this episode? I don’t remember seeing that. Yes, first scene. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/256 "2019-05-13T18:31:08Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through. > > I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn’t happen, though. I think he was just following her lead. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/257 "2019-05-13T18:37:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Oh ok, I saw that. I thought she meant the soldiers were watching her spying on Danaerys. Yes, but the fact that she’s working in the kitchen and Varys is perturbed by Danaerys not eating make it clear what’s going on, knowing Varys’ opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/258 "2019-05-13T18:42:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, but the fact that she’s working in the kitchen and Varys is perturbed by Danaerys not eating make it clear what’s going on, knowing Varys’ opinion. Maybe he had a special “I’m Sorry” cake that he wanted to present to Dani? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/259 "2019-05-13T18:44:06Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Do you all think that Dany gave Grey Worm orders to not break off the attack? Looks to me like he just snapped all on his own, but he could have been following her orders, and the look on his face may have been distaste at having to act so, followed by resolve to follow through. > > I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn’t happen, though. She did tall Greyworm to go forward with his attack-- he’ll know when. I think torching the people was a pretty good sign. Also, what did Dany say to Greyworm before he tossed Miss Sunday’s belt in the fire? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/260 "2019-05-13T18:45:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes. He had enlisted the kitchen girl to do it. That’s why he was concerned that Danaerys wasn’t eating. What I couldn’t figure out was who he was writing the messages concerning Jon’s parentage to, and how he was going to smuggle them out. I assumed they would be sent by ravens to the main lords of Westeros. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=14)