# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/281 "2019-05-13T19:47:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Since they have pretty much described the broadcast events as the occurred. **Moderating** This is a thread about the show. Let’s refrain from discussing leaks or information not from the show itself as it is broadcast. Colibri Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/282 "2019-05-13T19:48:21Z")
It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point? The letters Varys was writing were, in my opinion, aimed at the power brokers back in Pentos - the same ones Varys has been allied with, and the ones who protected Daeneris as a child and helped marry her off to a powerful man, give her dragon eggs, etc. And what if those guys were affiliated with the Iron Bank? They all wanted a Targaryan on the throne because they thought it would restore peace and prosperity to Westeros - needed for them to get their money back. We could have a scene where Daeneris begins to rule, and she’s going to kill Jon Snow when suddenly forces from the Iron Bank arrive and inform her she is not the rightful ruler, and they kill her and install Jon Snow, who inherits a destroyed kingdom deeply in debt and the real power players in his new regime are owned by the bank. For that matter, what if the faceless men trained Arya under contract to the Iron Bank? I think it’s been established that the Iron Bank uses the Faceless men as muscle, so maybe planting one in Westeros - one who really hates the person who borrowed all the money - was a good pre-emptive move. Maybe Arya will be ready to give up and go home, and Jaqen appears and says, ‘a girl’s tasks are not finished…’. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/283 "2019-05-13T19:51:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point? The Iron Bank has backed loser after loser in this war, they’ve got no one to collect from and at this point I would be shocked if they had much of anything left to collect with. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/284 "2019-05-13T19:52:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. They are supposed to be so powerful that even the Lannisters at the height of their power were scared of them, and Cersei borrowed a whole lot more from them to fund the Golden Company. Surely they have to show up to collect at some point? > > The letters Varys was writing were, in my opinion, aimed at the power brokers back in Pentos - the same ones Varys has been allied with, and the ones who protected Daeneris as a child and helped marry her off to a powerful man, give her dragon eggs, etc. And what if those guys were affiliated with the Iron Bank? They all wanted a Targaryan on the throne because they thought it would restore peace and prosperity to Westeros - needed for them to get their money back. > > We could have a scene where Daeneris begins to rule, and she’s going to kill Jon Snow when suddenly forces from the Iron Bank arrive and inform her she is not the rightful ruler, and they kill her and install Jon Snow, who inherits a destroyed kingdom deeply in debt and the real power players in his new regime are owned by the bank. > > For that matter, what if the faceless men trained Arya under contract to the Iron Bank? I think it’s been established that the Iron Bank uses the Faceless men as muscle, so maybe planting one in Westeros - one who really hates the person who borrowed all the money - was a good pre-emptive move. > > Maybe Arya will be ready to give up and go home, and Jaqen appears and says, ‘a girl’s tasks are not finished…’. Not just the Iron Bank, but its also possible we see Jon stating his intention to take his men north…Dany says no, then Yara and her fleet show up along with the Dornish and maybe some other forces and Dany has to either kill them all or leave. THAT to me would be a happy ending so I dont see it happening. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/285 "2019-05-13T19:52:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It just occurred to me that there could be another surprise claimant to the Iron Throne - the Iron Bank. I actually proposed this a week or two ago - that the Iron Bank would put Westeros into receivership and institute a sensible for-profit corporate management. But I was joking.🙂 I think this would be about as popular as having the basic conflict in _The Phantom Menace_ be a trade war. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/286 "2019-05-13T19:54:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > This is a thread about the show. Let’s refrain from discussing leaks or information not from the show itself as it is broadcast. > > Colibri > Moderator Q: That brings up a point I’ll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar…how does DVD features and ‘after the show’ bits figure under the rules? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/287 "2019-05-13T19:57:08Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Q: That brings up a point I’ll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar…how does DVD features and ‘after the show’ bits figure under the rules? This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/288 "2019-05-13T19:59:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > One thing we haven’t really talked much about is the Daeneris/Jon Snow love angle - which I have found totally unbelievable from the beginning. First, there is zero chemistry between the actors. None of their romantic scenes felt really right. Second, for all the complaining about Daeneris’s ‘sudden’ turn to the dark side (which has actually been foreshadowed throughout the entire series), the ‘sudden turn’ that really was unbelievable was this sudden undying love between Jon Snow and Daeneris. She’s not even the type of person Jon Snow would like. She’s a high-born woman seeking power. The opposite of Snow. And Jon Snow isn’t the kind of man she’s been attracted to either - he’s more the Ser Jorah Type, destined to be Friendzoned. She likes the dashing, swashbuckling, aggressive men like Khal Drogo and Dario Neharis. > > In terms of the show, they’ve barely been together on screen. Their whole love interest arc didn’t work for me at all. But it’s not a particular fault of writing or acting - just a good idea for the story, but that really didn’t work for me. > > Anyone else feel the same way? 100% and always have since they slammed it into last year’s final episode(s). Dude, no way. He and she have very little in common and while she was somewhat impressive, she definitely would not impress people as much as the show pretends she does. I mean, everyone just thinks this girl is some kind of amazing person and true leader. I think the show just proved that every single person was ridiculously wrong and she never deserved to be seen that way. I hope Jon kills her and Gendry becomes king or something. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/289 "2019-05-13T20:07:38Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else. I wouldn’t take **AK84** ’s pronouncements as worth much. And yes, y’all, it was pretty obvious Varys was trying to get the kitchen urchin to poison Dany. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/290 "2019-05-13T20:17:10Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 100% and always have since they slammed it into last year’s final episode(s). Dude, no way. He and she have very little in common and while she was somewhat impressive, she definitely would not impress people as much as the show pretends she does. Daenerys / Emilia Clarke is exceptionally beautiful. So in terms of engaging in a little bit of gland-to-gland combat, she’d impress a lot of guys. > [@](#): > > I mean, everyone just thinks this girl is some kind of amazing person and true leader. But she indisputably is. Daenerys was a beggar who was sold off as a teenaged sex toy for Khal Drogo, and even her position as Khaleesi was taken from her. From that she conquered cities, brokered agreements, freed slaves, raised armies. I mean, say what you will, but she has a natural talent for leadership. Where Tyrion and Jon were wrong is the assumption she was going to use her charisma for good. Both men were engaging in wishful thinking; Jon because he needed her to wage his own war, and also because he loved her, Tyrion because he was desperate to find some kind of redemption and purpose. They were able to project upon Daenerys what they wanted her to be and what she SAID she was, even as the signs mounted that she was another tyrant. Who else was fooled? Jorah, I guess, but he was in love with her and, like Tyrion, was a lost soul. No one else was. Varys sure as hell wasn’t, and Sansa wasn’t, and so on. Grey Worm, Missandei and the rest were really quite fine with her burning and killing. Grey Worm and Missandei were freed slaves; they were on her side because she liberated them and killed their enemies. It wasn’t any sort of moral position. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/291 "2019-05-13T20:18:40Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I wouldn’t take **AK84** ’s pronouncements as worth much. > And yes, y’all, it was pretty obvious Varys was trying to get the kitchen urchin to poison Dany. I thought he was joking at first, but now he’s defending them here and has posted them to the finale prediction thread. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/292 "2019-05-13T20:28:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Who else was fooled? Jorah, I guess, but he was in love with her and, like Tyrion, was a lost soul. No one else was. Most of the audience was. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/293 "2019-05-13T20:29:42Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Q: That brings up a point I’ll just ask about rather then trying to slip it in under the radar…how does DVD features and ‘after the show’ bits figure under the rules? > [@DigitalC](#): > > This thread specifically is for the show that aired last night, absolutely nothing else. [Moderating] Personally, I’m inclined to allow the “Inside the Episode” interviews and such on HBO’s own website, since they are not posted until after the episode airs. In my experience they only discuss up to the present episode, and don’t give spoilers about the next one. They can clarify motivations and what has actually happened in the episode. Information from “Next Week On” is allowed, but should be spoilered for those (like me) who avoid the previews. I would avoid information from DVD features on earlier seasons unless it can be established that the information is from the show only, and isn’t drawing on the books. The DVDs are not available to all viewers. Colibri Moderator ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/294 "2019-05-13T20:29:51Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I thought he was joking at first, but now he’s defending them here and has posted them to the finale prediction thread. I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/295 "2019-05-13T20:33:45Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke. I did. They may still be a joke–we won’t know until next week–but this shit’s beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/296 "2019-05-13T20:34:38Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > …I was sure that the first thing Dany did after destroying the scorpions would be to destroy the bell towers. That didn’t happen, though. Maybe she forgot about them? God, it’s just so bad. If they wanted to get an early starting on screwing up the remainder of the star Wars franchise, I’d have been cool with the showrunners leaving before Season 8, and handing it off to someone else to finish. Beautiful though, in the same way de Gaulle said it while watching the mushroom cloud rise after a nuclear test. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/297 "2019-05-13T20:44:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke. I did. I just assumed it would say “Hot Pie” or “Ser Pounce” or something like that, not casually be a real spoiler. Genuine discussion of the spoiler follows in this spoiler box This was the same name as the surprising to me clear front runner in Sky Bet’s “Who will rule Westeros” market from before the first episode aired ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/298 "2019-05-13T20:45:25Z")
I wasn’t at all surprised that Danaerys went Mad Queen given the way that this season and the last one have been taking her character - and actually all the way back to the first season. (As has been said, anyone who thinks this wasn’t a potential end to her character arc hasn’t been paying attention.) I was a little surprised at just how far they took it. I thought she might trigger a conflagration partially by accident in the course of trying to get at Cersei. But multiple strafing runs at the civilian population before she even tried to get at Cersei, and the graphic depiction of the incineration of a mother and child, were intended to put her absolutely beyond the pale. I was also somewhat surprised in that they showed almost all of the supposed “good guy” forces engaging in atrocities - killing opposing soldiers after they had surrendered, the Dothraki hacking down fleeing civilians for no reason, the Northern soldier trying to rape. For me it did harken back to the earlier seasons when even the characters whose side we were supposed to be on committed despicable acts. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/299 "2019-05-13T20:45:28Z")
I’m out. See you Sunday night. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/300 "2019-05-13T20:46:45Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I sure hope no one clicked that assuming it was a joke. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I did. They may still be a joke–we won’t know until next week–but this shit’s beyond the pale. > [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I did. I just assumed it would say “Hot Pie” or “Ser Pounce” or something like that, not casually be a real spoiler. > > Genuine discussion of the spoiler follows in this spoiler box > > This was the same name as the surprising to me clear front runner in Sky Bet’s “Who will rule Westeros” market from before the first episode aired **Moderating** Let’s stop going on and on about the supposed spoiler. Drop the subject now, even if you’re joking. Colibri [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=16)