# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/361 "2019-05-14T10:33:22Z")
Speaking of Bran, are we going to find out the former mad king was Hodored or not into repeating “burn them all” over and over? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/362 "2019-05-14T11:45:55Z")
What if she is killed early in the episode by the kitchen girl Varys gave the bravery pep talk to? (Maybe she was going to do it in time to prevent the massacre, but Dany thwarted the plan by not eating.) And then the rest of the episode is the Northerners fighting the Unsullied, Dothraki, and a pissed off Drogon. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/363 "2019-05-14T11:53:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Speaking of Bran, are we going to find out the former mad king was Hodored or not into repeating “burn them all” over and over? I know that some people have advanced this theory, but I see zero reason to assume that such a thing happened. It’s just a random idea backed by nothing. On top of it, if it had happened, it would mean that the mad kind wasn’t, in fact, mad, and then why would Danaerys be? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/364 "2019-05-14T12:02:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I know that some people have advanced this theory, but I see zero reason to assume that such a thing happened. It’s just a random idea backed by nothing. > > On top of it, if it had happened, it would mean that the mad kind wasn’t, in fact, mad, and then why would Danaerys be? Also, that theory is often advanced in reference to defeating the White Walkers. They have been defeated without wildfire or “burning them all” in other ways. No need for it now. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/365 "2019-05-14T12:20:12Z")
> [@eunoia](#): > > …and Gregor aka The Mountain is now also a completely loyal zombie conjured by that guy he kills chucking down the staircase before completely ignoring orders for the first time ever and afterwards letting lets Cersei scoot down the stairs past the guy who just dispatched 4 of her armed and armored guards in 7 seconds while watching 14 steps above. Not to be distracted, Sandor barely acknowledges it. Gregor’s hatred for his brother was stronger than his zombie-infused loyalty. That’s a standard zombie/controlled-human trope (although usually it is love that overcomes the control). A couple of people have commented on the Hound not stabbing Cersei as she went past. Has he ever expressed any particular hatred for Cersei? That was Arya’s schtick, he doesn’t care who is on the throne. Hell, she had Gregor saved so that he could kill him himself, so at some level he owes her. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/366 "2019-05-14T12:33:18Z")
I thought, whatever his gruff, vulgar exterior, he had become “good” through the influence of Arya, Beric, and the religious leader. Plus, it would be a favor for Arya, and besides: Cersei had JUST tried to kill him via her other Kingsguard. Furthermore, his hated brother had spent years faithfully defending the queen; killing her makes him a failure as a bonus. But of course he cannot do it because the script has other exigencies. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/367 "2019-05-14T13:07:32Z")
Cleganebowl was crap but I did enjoy The Hound getting his Inigo Montoya moment on the stairs. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/368 "2019-05-14T13:09:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I was also somewhat surprised in that they showed almost all of the supposed “good guy” forces engaging in atrocities - killing opposing soldiers after they had surrendered, the Dothraki hacking down fleeing civilians for no reason, the Northern soldier trying to rape. For me it did harken back to the earlier seasons when even the characters whose side we were supposed to be on committed despicable acts. Indeed, it was probably the most realistic thing Game of Thrones has ever shown. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/369 "2019-05-14T13:28:55Z")
There is no good in this show. There are some lighter shades of grey, and then it ranges to full-on dark side. And the more I think about it, that whole “In the game of thrones, you win or you die” is a misdirection. No one wins the game. And lots of people die. Were I a Westerosi peasant, one shit, let alone two, is more than I would give regarding who’s on that throne. If it is even around. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/370 "2019-05-14T13:32:12Z")
In retrospect, Daenerys was always a bit “off”. So I’m not sure why anyone is saying burning King’s Landing is “out of character”. Off the top of my head: - Standing by and allowing Kahl Droggo to “crown” her brother - Burning the which in Season 1 - Burning the warlock in the House of the Undying in Qarth with her dragon - Locking Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah in the vault - Killing and burning the Masters after purchasing the Unsullied - Executing the Masters in Meereen - Burning the Dothraki temple with all the Kahls inside - Burning Lord Tarly and son with her dragon I mean…is there ever a problem she doesn’t solve with “dracarys”? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/371 "2019-05-14T14:07:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I found her decision–especially the strafing of innocents–to be initially jarring. But the more I think about it, the more in keeping with her it is to decide to turn King’s Landing into a horrific example to any who would oppose her. And that would have made sense if she started doing that from the beginning and then they showed her struggling to stop after the bells started ringing, but going crazy after achieving complete victory makes a lot less sense. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/372 "2019-05-14T14:09:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In retrospect, Daenerys was always a bit “off”. So I’m not sure why anyone is saying burning King’s Landing is “out of character”. Off the top of my head: > > - Standing by and allowing Kahl Droggo to “crown” her brother > - Burning the which in Season 1 > - Burning the warlock in the House of the Undying in Qarth with her dragon > - Locking Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah in the vault > - Killing and burning the Masters after purchasing the Unsullied > - Executing the Masters in Meereen > - Burning the Dothraki temple with all the Kahls inside > - Burning Lord Tarly and son with her dragon > I mean…is there ever a problem she doesn’t solve with “dracarys”? But that’s the point… up until now she “solved” problems. There was reason behind her acts, good intent, even. If you want to make her into the sort of villain that just kills random people for fun, you have to show that change taking place, because, while she had been going a bit nutters in the last episodes, this is a couple or more of whole new levels of crazy. Or, you know, you don’t have enough talent, so you just go “she just does, screw it.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/373 "2019-05-14T14:37:47Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > I reckon Gendry is going to get it. No other reason why the writers would make Dany legitimise him. Speaking of that, why didn’t Dany give Big Sam the Tully lands and title for his loyalty? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/374 "2019-05-14T14:40:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Speaking of that, why didn’t Dany give Big Sam the Tully lands and title for his loyalty? Because there are still Tully’s and they are Stark allies? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/375 "2019-05-14T14:43:01Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Because there are still Tully’s and they are Stark allies? ? The lands and title was forfeit when Dad & Big Bro Tully refused to bend the knee. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/376 "2019-05-14T14:43:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > ? > The lands and title was forfeit when Dad & Big Bro Tully refused to bend the knee. Oh, you mean Tarly. Tully’s are Catelyn’s family. Shrug, why would she need to give him his own lands? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/377 "2019-05-14T15:11:56Z")
This ‘ring the bells’ chant arising spontaneously in King’s Landing. Is there an established history (in show Westeros OR even in Real World) that ringing bells means “We surrender”? I’m more familiar with bells being rung to warn of danger/call out defense OR in celebration after a victory. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/378 "2019-05-14T15:14:18Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Oh, you mean Tarly. Tully’s are Catelyn’s family. Shrug, why would she need to give him his own lands? Well he took the black, so it’s not really his anymore. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/379 "2019-05-14T15:22:58Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > This ‘ring the bells’ chant arising spontaneously in King’s Landing. Is there an established history (in show Westeros OR even in Real World) that ringing bells means “We surrender”? > > I’m more familiar with bells being rung to warn of danger/call out defense OR in celebration after a victory. Considering that Tyrion had to go around telling everyone that “the bells mean surrender!”, I guess it’s not a super established custom. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/380 "2019-05-14T15:49:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Considering that Tyrion had to go around telling everyone that “the bells mean surrender!”, I guess it’s not a super established custom. Either that or he already was foreseeing that most of them really were on a no-quarter frame of mind, so he wanted to drive it home. Which of course meant everyone in the audience suspected the surrender signal would not be honored. But then one has to wonder what kept Danaerys from simply calling no-quarter explicitly from the start. She already wanted to and it does not seem at that point she should have remained interested in even pretending to humor Jon and Tyrion’s opinions any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=20)