# Game of Thrones 8.05 "The Bells" 5/12/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869 "2019-05-12T22:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/141 "2019-05-13T12:24:12Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > If she had done something kinda-sorta-similar-ish before, but on much smaller scale, then it would have been easier to imagine her choice. > > I had no idea what the “choice” she was making at the time. It literally did not occur to me that she might do that, until it was already done. Like… there was just no rational point to it. That’s not a rational choice, that’s a psychotic break. She’s demented, like her father was. It was just bubbling under the surface until now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/142 "2019-05-13T12:26:22Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s not a rational choice, that’s a psychotic break. She’s demented, like her father was. It was just bubbling under the surface until now. That seems to be how it was presented, but IMO that’s not particularly interesting, narratively speaking. Much more interesting would be some long, slow process in which someone susceptible to madness was driven so by a combination of their own decisions and outside events. I blame the writers. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/143 "2019-05-13T13:11:44Z")
Lots of angst on Twitter, since apparently Dany is a feminist icon.:rolleyes: I mean, the women who had been burning people alive since season 1, _might not be stable_, who’d have thought.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![gupwalla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@gupwalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gupwalla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/144 "2019-05-13T13:13:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t think the Red God would bring anyone back now that the Night King is dead. Could he ever? ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/145 "2019-05-13T13:21:31Z")
Wot, no kingsguard? Well, apart from Frankengregor. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/146 "2019-05-13T13:22:02Z")
Danny girl’s turn to the crazy makes perfectly fine sense to me. We’re told over and over that this runs in the family. Her dad wanted to “Burn them all” before being persuaded not to by being made dead by Jamie. The in-story characters know this: “fortune flips a coin every time a Targaryen is born”. It’s not unheard of in real life either: Caligula was apparently a fine emperor before diving head-first into the crazy, and (maybe less convincingly) similar is true for Nero. As to who sits the iron throne in the end: first off, it doesn’t really matter. The seven kingdoms are in ruin, the social infrastructure is shattered, a significant portion of the working-age population is dead. First concerns will be getting agriculture started back up, and for families to pick up the pieces of what’s left, with whom is left. Second, the notion of birthright is out the window. For centuries nobility was a thin veneer of civility overlaying the naked power grab of the first Targaryen king, and the noble houses ditto. So the throne belongs to whomever can take it and keep it from being taken. Pretty sure right now in Westeros, if you control a dragon, you control everything. If there’s no one controlling a dragon, it’s open season, and a united seven kingdoms becomes very unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/147 "2019-05-13T13:26:18Z")
Also lol Golden Company. Much talked about, finally seen (disappointingly sans elephants) only to be toast before ever seeing action. Bit of a hot mess. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/148 "2019-05-13T13:31:41Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Wot, no kingsguard? > > Well, apart from Frankengregor. They were very prominently there. Sandor cut through them like tissue paper. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/149 "2019-05-13T13:34:51Z")
Since Dany getting killed is now expected I would not bet on it happening. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/150 "2019-05-13T13:36:19Z")
(Sigh) So many people with Targaryen tattoos. So many kids named Dany or Khalessi…gotta watch til the end people!! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/151 "2019-05-13T13:36:37Z")
> [@gupwalla](#): > > Could he ever? The Red God resurrected every single person on the show that we’ve seen be resurrected (Beric and Jon). ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/152 "2019-05-13T13:39:27Z")
So was THIS the third ‘oh shit moment’? Cause if not, im kind of scared. Cue Bran warging into Drogan, roasting everyone and taking the throne as his eyes turn blue. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/153 "2019-05-13T13:40:47Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The Red God resurrected every single person on the show that we’ve seen be resurrected (Beric and Jon). Not counting wights and Frankenmountain? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/154 "2019-05-13T13:41:18Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Great episode if I hadn’t seen the early seasons of GoT, but the tropes that continue to be rolled out just take me out of it: > > 1. Varys being dumbed down since the source material ran out. I really didn’t see him as being dumbed down at all. He saw what was happened, and he correctly knew it was all going to be a disaster, and he was trying to do something about it, but it didn’t work. What the hell else could he have done? At the end, he died bravely and nobly. He did was was right, hopeless though the effort was, and when he was betrayed he walked to his death with his head high. His final words were so good. > [@](#): > > 1. BIG ONE: Dany’s quick change from being really paranoid to just deciding to burn down the entire city I’ve thought for years she was insane. She has always been held in check by her advisors and by the fact helping people was in her interest. Neither of those things were true anymore. How many times has Targaryen insanity been foreshadowed? A hundred? TWO hundred? How many times have Tyrion or Varys or someone else had to hold her back? How many times has she refused any sort of compromise? Daenerys Targaryen has always been a wannabe tyrant. She has always had a Messianic complex. All her support systems have shrivelled up. For a full season she’s wanted to kill and burn and lay waste and she had to be coaxed into every compromise. You could see the fury bubbling underneath the whole time. > [@](#): > > 1. BIGGEST ONE: Euron showing up on the beach that Jamie wound up on, AND of course they fight to the death, AND of course Jamie received a mortal wound, AND of course, well it turns out it’s not quite fatal, so he crawls to a sword while Euron watches and ends up killing Euron with it. And then gets up like nothing happened and walks up tons of stairs to magically run into Cersei. I hate everything about anyone named “Greyjoy” so I’m with you here. My only really huge problem was Cersei. She was utterly beaten and useless; no tricks up her sleeve at all. I mean, that’s not unrealistic; she expected her armies to win, and they didn’t, but it would have made for a better episode if she had some evil trick and THAT is what triggered Daenerys. There are a lot of obvious problems as the story barrels towards a conclusion in what is really not enough time to do it justice, but that was a great episode of television, because like all good entertainment it evoked emotion. The scene between Tyrion and Jaime was incredibly poignant. There was a palpable sense of dread before the battle started. The burning of the city was incredibly horrifying. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Tyrion has certainly failed, but I don’t think anyone who “outsmarted” him is better off than they would have been by following his advice. No one outsmarted Tyrion. He failed, but what happened was out of anyone’s control except Daenerys, and maybe not even her because she is nuttier than elephant shit. For all everyone has played the Game of Thrones, really things just fall to shit; if there is a theme to this story, that’s the theme. They are all prisoners of a horrible, brutal system. Jon called it: all anyone knows is a shit world and Daenerys couldn’t “burn cities and melt castles” and expect to be any different, and as it turns out she wasn’t and it’s the same as it ever was. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/155 "2019-05-13T13:43:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Not counting wights and Frankenmountain? Gregor never died, so he can’t be resurrected. Wights… yeah, sure. But you knew what I meant so good job. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/156 "2019-05-13T13:48:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I LITERALLY thought this ‘if the bells ring, back off’ thing was going to just be another dumb Tyrion idea that blew up in his face. So I can’t blame Dany for thinking the same thing. Also…we did revolutionize ship-to-ship combat. That was something. They can’t take THAT away from us. There IS a copy of the schematic somewhere, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/157 "2019-05-13T13:53:54Z")
So who ordered the bells to be rung? Jaime hadn’t met Cersei to tell her. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/158 "2019-05-13T13:53:57Z")
What was up with the weird ass helmets the Lannister forces had? I don’t think they wore those before. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/159 "2019-05-13T13:56:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You people don’t seriously believe Jaime and Cersei are dead, do you? > > Really? They’ll just find Jaime’s golden hand in the wreckage, and declare them dead, thus setting up a far inferior sequel series. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869/160 "2019-05-13T13:57:21Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What was up with the weird ass helmets the Lannister forces had? I don’t think they wore those before. They did. It’s been their signature helmet since season 1. See Syrio Forel’s last stand for an example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-05-the-bells-5-12-19-show-discussion/833869.md?page=9)