# Game of Thrones 8.06 "The Iron Throne" 5/19/2019 Show Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204 "2019-05-19T21:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/461 "2019-05-21T16:36:31Z")
I disliked Grey Worm and the Unsullied from the very beginning, starting with their name (I’d say they’ve actually been sullied pretty badly - and what is it with George R.R. Martin and guys getting their junk cut off?) The idea of a feared army being composed of eunuchs is absurd to begin with, right? Doesn’t removal of the testes lessen all the attributes that would be desirable in melee combat? Once the Grey Worm/Missandei plot started becoming more developed, I put it squarely into the “Sam and Gilly” territory - i.e. stupid shit that eats up precious minutes of the show that should be devoted to more compelling storylines. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/462 "2019-05-21T16:37:41Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > One thing that doesn’t make sense though is Bran both becoming King and the North becoming independent. Seems like you can have either one, but not both at the same time. This is a feudal system, and Bran’s only actual base of power is in the North. It would make sense for him to let Sansa actually run it on a day to day basis (like King Robert let his brothers run the Stormlands), but since that’s the only region that would have any loyalty to him personally, he absolutely will need to be able to call those banners should the need arise. It made me wonder if Sansa had been selected as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms whether she would continue to insist on northern independence. In any case, Bran is the legitimate heir as King of the North anyway. In theory, he could serve as both King of the Six Kingdoms and of the North at the same time, as James I of England/James VI of Scotland did. Sansa is Queen of the North only because Bran abdicated that title. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/463 "2019-05-21T16:43:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And he violated his celibacy oath with Ygritte. (Technically, though, the oath is just to take no wife and father no children, not strictly to never have sex.) Wasn’t he already under orders to infiltrate the Wildlings at that point? I’d argue he kept his oath regardless. > [@Lamoral](#): > > I disliked Grey Worm and the Unsullied from the very beginning, starting with their name (I’d say they’ve actually been sullied pretty badly - and what is it with George R.R. Martin and guys getting their junk cut off?) The idea of a feared army being composed of eunuchs is absurd to begin with, right? Doesn’t removal of the testes lessen all the attributes that would be desirable in melee combat? > > Once the Grey Worm/Missandei plot started becoming more developed, I put it squarely into the “Sam and Gilly” territory - i.e. stupid shit that eats up precious minutes of the show that should be devoted to more compelling storylines. My problem with the Unsullied is that despite Dany saying otherwise, they’re still basically a slave army. I think a better storyline would be, how does she react when some of them start disobeying orders? Was it all just lip service to them being “free”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/464 "2019-05-21T16:48:08Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Wasn’t he already under orders to infiltrate the Wildlings at that point? I’d argue he kept his oath regardless. He was, but he wasn’t given leave to otherwise violate his oath. Here it is: > [@](#): > > “Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night’s Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.” Now he would probably be in the clear if he was using a medieval condom with Ygritte, but otherwise not.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/465 "2019-05-21T16:50:14Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It made me wonder if Sansa had been selected as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms whether she would continue to insist on northern independence. > > In any case, Bran is the legitimate heir as King of the North anyway. In theory, he could serve as both King of the Six Kingdoms and of the North at the same time, as James I of England/James VI of Scotland did. Sansa is Queen of the North only because Bran abdicated that title. Nobody ever offered the kingship of the North to Bran. King in the North - and we’ve seen several holders of that title - are chosen by the Northern nobles. Bran is heir to Ned Stark, and would be the Lord of Winterfell if he’d accepted that title, but at no point did anyone raise the possibility of him being KitN. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/466 "2019-05-21T16:50:44Z")
Don’t know whether Sansa would have accepted the Queendom of the 7 Realms. Her “adventures” made her appreciate her father’s philosophy and long for the staid honor and relative stability of The North and absolutely abhor the south and “southrons”. It also doesn’t seem as if she wanted power for power’s sake. She just thinks she’d be better at ruling her people than anyone else. But, ya know, she also has the tendency-- just like Cersei and Dany-- to think her way is the right way and you know what happened to those two once they were in power. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/467 "2019-05-21T17:17:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As far as I recall, he otherwise adhered to the oath until he was killed. And since the oath is to continue in the Watch until one’s death, his being killed technically let him off the hook. I don’t think the NW oath says anything about death relieving you of your vows. I’d argue it was more of an “I know when I’m not wanted” situation, after they murdered him and all. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/468 "2019-05-21T17:23:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Well, he will until he’s killed and resurrected again.😃 > > Jon attempted to violate his oath once when he rode off to join Robb, but was persuaded to come back by Sam and his other friends. And he violated his celibacy oath with Ygritte. (Technically, though, the oath is just to take no wife and father no children, not strictly to never have sex.) As far as I recall, he otherwise adhered to the oath until he was killed. And since the oath is to continue in the Watch until one’s death, his being killed technically let him off the hook. All true, but in my head canon he’s still ridden off to be King in the North. In fact up in me noggin…the Free Folk wern’t waiting on Jon at Castle Black…they CAME BACK to escort HIM North. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/469 "2019-05-21T17:25:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If that was the case, I don’t recall it being shown in the show. The raiding party climbing the Wall was presented a highly exceptional thing, even though the Wall was essentially unguarded for almost its entire length (only three forts being manned). And Osha’s party getting as far south as Winterfell seemed to be entirely unexpected. (I don’t think it was explained how they got around the Wall, but it was presumably by small boat.) > > The Wall by itself presented almost an insurmountable barrier to the Wildlings. Even if they got over or around it they could hardly have brought anything back by climbing over it or by boat. > > I’m sure Sansa would have heard that Edmure ordered the surrender of Riverrun and got the Blackfish killed to save his own skin. > > Presumably he would have been freed after Arya slaughtered all the Freys, but we weren’t shown this, and we don’t know where he’s been or who has been running Riverrun since. If by “His own skin” you mean his baby…yeahhhh. I can see how that works. Also saved everyone in the castle eventually. I just think she fairly politely was saying “Sit down, its not going to be you and you’re embarassing yourself.” ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/470 "2019-05-21T17:46:00Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I don’t think the NW oath says anything about death relieving you of your vows. I’d argue it was more of an “I know when I’m not wanted” situation, after they murdered him and all. It does, as Colibri quoted above. “…[It shall not end until my death](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3BhOWpurdc)…” I believe at least one character explicitly said something about his watch being over after he was resurrected. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/471 "2019-05-21T17:53:55Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I don’t think the NW oath says anything about death relieving you of your vows. I’d argue it was more of an “I know when I’m not wanted” situation, after they murdered him and all. “Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall hold no lands…” ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/472 "2019-05-21T18:07:29Z")
Okay, well, I was wrong, but it also says “For this night, and _all_ the nights to come”. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/473 "2019-05-21T18:13:31Z")
Circling back, more than a few people called Bronn too corrupt to be Master of Coin. But is he? I never saw him as corrupt. He’s a sellsword, selling his service to the highest bidder. But I never saw him do anything particularly wrong. Probably the closest was considering killing his sister-in-law to inherit her castle, but I don’t think he ever went through with it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/474 "2019-05-21T18:24:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If that was the case, I don’t recall it being shown in the show. The raiding party climbing the Wall was presented a highly exceptional thing, even though the Wall was essentially unguarded for almost its entire length (only three forts being manned). And Osha’s party getting as far south as Winterfell seemed to be entirely unexpected. (I don’t think it was explained how they got around the Wall, but it was presumably by small boat.) > > The Wall by itself presented almost an insurmountable barrier to the Wildlings. Even if they got over or around it they could hardly have brought anything back by climbing over it or by boat. Ollie’s (Jon’s one-time steward) village was overrun by one of the northern sub-tribes, I think, the big skinhead dudes. Hence his reason for joining in on the assassination of Jon later on. I think the village was on the southern side of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/475 "2019-05-21T18:25:53Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Ollie’s (Jon’s one-time steward) village was overrun by one of the northern sub-tribes, I think, the big skinhead dudes. Hence his reason for joining in on the assassination of Jon later on. I think the village was on the southern side of the wall. I’m pretty sure those were the wildlings that climb over the wall with Jon. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/476 "2019-05-21T18:47:57Z")
I think both are correct; the raid on Ollie’s village was led by Tormund and Ygritte, but I could swear there were big skinhead dudes (the cannibals) there as well. They didn’t climb the wall with our intrepid heroes, did they? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/477 "2019-05-21T18:52:42Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I think both are correct; the raid on Ollie’s village was led by Tormund and Ygritte, but I could swear there were big skinhead dudes (the cannibals) there as well. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mmp3esRz4Wk/maxresdefault.jpg "Game of thrones season 4 episode 3 - Wildlings attack village - Ygritte, Tormud, Styr") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmp3esRz4Wk&t=86) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/478 "2019-05-21T18:55:23Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Circling back, more than a few people called Bronn too corrupt to be Master of Coin. But is he? I never saw him as corrupt. He’s a sellsword, selling his service to the highest bidder. But I never saw him do anything particularly wrong. Probably the closest was considering killing his sister-in-law to inherit her castle, but I don’t think he ever went through with it. But he was willing to switch allegiances if he was offered more money. It’s what he did with Jaime and Tyrion. If that isn’t corruption, whatever it is is kissing cousins\* with corruption. \*) I’m guessing that idiom is probably not used in Westeros as it would be considered redundant. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/479 "2019-05-21T19:05:12Z")
> [@Steve\_McQwark](#): > > But he was willing to switch allegiances if he was offered more money. It’s what he did with Jaime and Tyrion. If that isn’t corruption, whatever it is is kissing cousins\* with corruption. When the show starts, Littlefinger is Master of Coin. His allegiances were never very consistent either. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/480 "2019-05-21T19:06:40Z")
I suspect that Westeros hasn’t exactly solved the problem of bureaucratic corruption. The Master of Coins might be expected to be a venal, corrupt asshole; but as long as he’s not overboard, and as long as he’s overall leading to kingdomwide prosperity, some skimming is copacetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=25)