# Game of Thrones 8.06 "The Iron Throne" 5/19/2019 Show Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204 "2019-05-19T21:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/501 "2019-05-21T22:06:39Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > My 2 cents: Robert Baratheon, and then Renly, claimed to be King _ **of** _ the Seven Kingdoms. When the North rose up under Robb Stark, they made a point that they didn’t want to be ruled by some southerner. They would choose a king who lived there, not someone who exerted influence from afar. Therefore, the King _ **in** _ the North. No, the title was King in the North even before the coming of the Targaryens. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/502 "2019-05-21T22:15:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > as someone mentioned how is Sam a maester? He did not complete his studies from what we know. Or maybe I am forgetting a scene where he mentions finishing the studies. Dany said something about rewarding him for curing Jorah of the grayscale thing, so perhaps making him a full-fledged maester was his reward. (Sort of like a battlefield commission.) ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/503 "2019-05-21T22:17:33Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > My 2 cents: Robert Baratheon, and then Renly, claimed to be King _ **of** _ the Seven Kingdoms. When the North rose up under Robb Stark, they made a point that they didn’t want to be ruled by some southerner. They would choose a king who lived there, not someone who exerted influence from afar. Therefore, the King _ **in** _ the North. Yeah, that’s the case that was made when Robb was made King. But the title is older than Robb. When he was made King, everyone spontaneously proclaimed him “King in the North!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PTEn_nlHfnU/hqdefault.jpg "Game of Thrones - "The King in the North!" 1080p HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEn_nlHfnU) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/504 "2019-05-21T22:20:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Dany said something about rewarding him for curing Jorah of the grayscale thing, so perhaps making him a full-fledged maester was his reward. (Sort of like a battlefield commission.) The Ruler can do a lot of things, but I’m not sure they can grant a maestership arbitrarily. In fact, the Ruler doesn’t even nominate the Grand Maester; he is appointed by the Citadel. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/505 "2019-05-21T22:27:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In the [Small Council meeting at the end](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BOkcVK8J5g), Tyrion refers to him (and he refers to himself) as Archmaester\*, and he is wearing a maester’s robes and chain. Maybe he finished his degree through correspondence school.😉 He enrolled in CUNY’s Life Experience Programs. Or CUKL or CUOT. As I typed the above I realized nobody knows that CUNY stands for City University of New York. And that they have continuing education programs for adults called Life Experience Programs. And now I have explained too much and have spoiled what little joke there was. Typed it, still posting it. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/506 "2019-05-21T22:32:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Ruler can do a lot of things, but I’m not sure they can grant a maestership arbitrarily. In fact, the Ruler doesn’t even nominate the Grand Maester; he is appointed by the Citadel. But it’s a new era. If Bran wants to change things, who is going to stop him? For that matter, if Bran is breaking the wheel, I think they should have done away with all the “King of the Andals and the First Men” stuff. Just declare him Bran the Broken, King of the Six Kingdoms. Not even “First of His Name”, since there will be no more King Brans to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/507 "2019-05-21T22:47:02Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > But it’s a new era. If Bran wants to change things, who is going to stop him? Being a maester is a technical degree, issued by the Citadel, based on knowledge. If Bran did that, it would be devaluing the value of the position. It would be like declaring someone a MD who hadn’t passed medical school. What would be the point? In any case, the ruler may be powerful but is not immune from political considerations. He’s probably not going to want to alienate one of the more powerful organizations in Westeros. > [@](#): > > Not even “First of His Name”, since there will be no more King Brans to follow. Why not? Even if Bran can’t have children, there’s no reason why other noble families couldn’t name sons after him, and one of them could eventually become King. Bran himself doesn’t seem to be particularly interested in breaking the wheel. The manner of choosing the king has been changed, but not much at all about Westeros institutions and society. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/508 "2019-05-21T22:51:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No, the title was King in the North even before the coming of the Targaryens. My guess is that it’s an admission of the reality that the North is too vast, ancient and wild for any human to be king OF it; the best one could be is king IN it. Also, it sounds cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/509 "2019-05-21T22:54:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You’re confusing the King of the North (of the Northern Kingdom) with the King-Beyond-The-Wall, which is a non-hereditary title held by whomever can unite most of the Wildlings in the area north of the wall. Mance Rayder was the last King-Beyond-The-Wall. > > In fact, it does appear that Jon is abandoning his post at the Wall. But if at that point he actually is Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch again he can command himself to do whatever he wants. I think Jon was simply escorting the wildlings home. The last scene was intended to bookend the first scene of the series, in which we see men of the night’s watch heading into the forest - where they meet the white walkers. That set off a series of events that led all the wildlings to flee the north beyond the wall. Now, after it’s all over, the last thing we see in the show is the wildlings going home, escorted by Jon Snow. Jon had no intention of abandoning Castle Black or leaving the watch. In his last scene with Arya, he told her to come visit him at Castle Black. I can understand the confusion of watching Jon head North beyond the wall, but I’m pretty sure that’s just another example of TV writers ignoring the confusion because they wanted that scene of the wildlings going home with Jon leading them. The fact that he doesn’t really need to do that doesn’t matter - it’s all about that great visual at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/510 "2019-05-21T23:01:34Z")
Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like _Van_ Ghost! ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/511 "2019-05-21T23:01:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think Jon was simply escorting the wildlings home. The last scene was intended to bookend the first scene of the series, in which we see men of the night’s watch heading into the forest - where they meet the white walkers. Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was _Why do they keep the gates closed?_ They don’t have any enemies to the north, and there’s a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east. I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/512 "2019-05-21T23:02:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like _Van_ Ghost! Since after the fight at Winterfell, yes. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/513 "2019-05-21T23:03:35Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was _Why do they keep the gates closed?_ They don’t have any enemies to the north, and there’s a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east. > > I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner. I think the wildling attacks kinda answer that. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/514 "2019-05-21T23:06:25Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think the wildling attacks kinda answer that. The only Wildlings I saw at Castle Black were manning the walls. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/515 "2019-05-21T23:30:41Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner. To a True Northerner, there is no “the North”. The people who call it that are just a bunch of filthy southerners. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/516 "2019-05-21T23:54:14Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was _Why do they keep the gates closed?_ They don’t have any enemies to the north, and there’s a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east. > > I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner. They kept the gate closed because that’s what they are supposed to do. When people go through the wall they open the gate, then close it behind them. Nobody has told them to change their procedures, and they don’t know what kings are planning, or what other events are going on. They don’t have the authority to say, “Screw this - just leave the door open.” Game of Thrones has historically been such a rich show that we’ve come to believe that every scene has hidden meanings, that everything a character does, he or she does for some reason that will be made clear later. But, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. They needed Jon and a few other men of the black to lead the wildlings in order to get that bookending of scenes for poetic effect, so that’s what they did. It really makes no sense for Jon Snow to violate his oath now, just because he’d rather live elsewhere. That would be totally against his character. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/517 "2019-05-22T00:04:58Z")
I think people are sort of overestimating how much stake these characters are implied to be putting in those vows. I think the viewers are supposed to get the message that the people who take these vows, whether they’re Kingsguard, Maesters, Night’s Watch men, etc, are imperfect humans who are in fact aware that they’re not going to magically get their faces melted off if they transgress the vows. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/518 "2019-05-22T00:12:39Z")
If Varys was really trying to poison Dany that would have just made Cersei the winner. It’s not like Jon would have had the support of the unsullied and dothraki, probably not Drogon either. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/519 "2019-05-22T00:19:01Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It really makes no sense for Jon Snow to violate his oath now, just because he’d rather live elsewhere. That would be totally against his character. He ran away from Castle Black after Ned was killed. He hooked up with Wildling Lady, which may or may not have technically been a violation of his oath. He quit the Night’s Watch, which was clearly a violation of the spirit of the oath. He killed his queen after bending the knee. No, Jon did not merely want to live elsewhere–oath or not, he wanted nothing to do with everything south of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/520 "2019-05-22T00:30:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > To a True Northerner, there is no “the North”. The people who call it that are just a bunch of filthy southerners. It’s not the South! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=27)