# Game of Thrones 8.06 "The Iron Throne" 5/19/2019 Show Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204 "2019-05-19T21:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/521 "2019-05-22T01:15:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like _Van_ Ghost! Ouch. (Or according to Google Translate, “au” in Dutch.) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/522 "2019-05-22T02:37:18Z")
Btw, re: Dorne’s place in the Seven Kingdoms. It was never formally a part of the Seven Kingdoms until much later (almost 200 years) after Aegon’s conquest). Aegon I claimed it (as did his successors) but never conquered it and was independent until a marriage linked the two. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/523 "2019-05-22T02:57:45Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I think people are sort of overestimating how much stake these characters are implied to be putting in those vows. I think the viewers are supposed to get the message that the people who take these vows, whether they’re Kingsguard, Maesters, Night’s Watch men, etc, are imperfect humans who are in fact aware that they’re not going to magically get their faces melted off if they transgress the vows. As in medieval Europe, the vow of celibacy was honored largely in the breach, it’s true. Grand Maester Pycelle, Kingsguards Jaime Lannister and Meryn Trant, the High Septon caught in Littlefinger’s brothel, and the members of the Night’s Watch who frequented the brothel in Mole’s Town all routinely violated their vows. But that doesn’t mean someone like Jon wouldn’t feel bound by them. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/524 "2019-05-22T05:58:56Z")
I really would have liked Bran to be revealed (only to the audience) to be an evil schemer that abused his powers. If he can see the future, that is a reasonable conclusion to make. However, you’d still have to answer why he’s evil, and that has not been established, not nearly to the degree of say, Dany. A hard knock life doesn’t cut it. Corruption by magic and/or The Night King would have to be shown or have exposition, which in the very last episode would have been clunky. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/525 "2019-05-22T08:08:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m pretty sure that’s just another example of TV writers ignoring the confusion because they wanted that scene of the wildlings going home with Jon leading them. The fact that he doesn’t really need to do that doesn’t matter - it’s all about that great visual at the end. I think that it was deliberate so that the viewers could imagine the end they prefered to Jon’s story. For me, he’s leaving the Night Watch. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/526 "2019-05-22T08:13:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They kept the gate closed because that’s what they are supposed to do. They emphatized the closing of this gate by having the screen go black. I think it’s intended to be meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/527 "2019-05-22T08:18:26Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > He quit the Night’s Watch, which was clearly a violation of the spirit of the oath. He didn’t quit the night watch. His watch was ended. He died. Also the night watch in effect needed much more support to fight the dead. Arguably he was still doing the Lord Commanders job at the Battle of Winterfell, and before that by getting a together a realistic defense to beat the dead which involved MUCH more people and potential dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/528 "2019-05-22T08:25:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As in medieval Europe, the vow of celibacy was honored largely in the breach, it’s true. Grand Maester Pycelle, Kingsguards Jaime Lannister and Meryn Trant, the High Septon caught in Littlefinger’s brothel, and the members of the Night’s Watch who frequented the brothel in Mole’s Town all routinely violated their vows. But that doesn’t mean someone like Jon wouldn’t feel bound by them. In the series, Sam continually pointed out that the vow was not of celibacy, but of marriage and having children. “I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.” So as long as you don’t get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you’re good. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/529 "2019-05-22T10:46:55Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > “I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.” > > So as long as you don’t get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you’re good. Even then, you could argue that the ban is on recognized children. So have as many Snows as you want. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/530 "2019-05-22T11:00:57Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I think that it was deliberate so that the viewers could imagine the end they prefered to Jon’s story. > > For me, he’s leaving the Night Watch. That’s what it felt like to me. But really, he could do anything he wants. He went to the Watch again because it was a compromise with Grey Worm which enabled a peaceful resolution to a tense situation. That’s the Grey Worm who has now left the continent along with the sizable elite army which was making the situation tense. It’s the responsibility of the lord of the North to police desertion from the Night’s Watch. But the North is now independent. Does it still have an obligation to King’s Landing to perform this task? It might have some self interest in doing so in the general case - the Night’s Watch consisting largely of rapists, thieves, murderers and others ne’erdowells, plus a smattering of ambitious third sons who never learned to play nicely. (In fact, really, how long before Sansa is reviewing this arrangement?). But in the specific case, if Jon wandered back to Winterfell, is Sansa going to execute him as deserter? Would word reach Grey Worm and would he really invade Westeros for Jon? I’m thinking no, doubtful and…maybe but probably not. Certainly if he heads North with the freefolk, there is no way he suffers any repercussions. Sansa isn’t chasing him up there, nor is Grey Worm. He has sworn an oath, but oaths can be flexible. If he spends most of his time on long ranging expeditions conducting liaison with Tormund and perhaps also any… less beardy redheads that might happen by, plus the occasional diplomatic excursion to Winterfell, he could technically be keeping his oath while living pretty much his best life. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/531 "2019-05-22T11:22:23Z")
Next season, Arya will eventually arrive at the wall, fresh from her adventures. She’ll convince John to help fill her ship with settlers and sail back to the amazing new continent she’s discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/532 "2019-05-22T11:55:47Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Certainly if he heads North with the freefolk, there is no way he suffers any repercussions. Sansa isn’t chasing him up there, nor is Grey Worm. He has sworn an oath, but oaths can be flexible. If he spends most of his time on long ranging expeditions conducting liaison with Tormund and perhaps also any… less beardy redheads that might happen by, plus the occasional diplomatic excursion to Winterfell, he could technically be keeping his oath while living pretty much his best life. I’ve heard there are some very open-minded bears north of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/533 "2019-05-22T13:22:49Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > It’s the responsibility of the lord of the North to police desertion from the Night’s Watch. But the North is now independent. Does it still have an obligation to King’s Landing to perform this task? It might have some self interest in doing so in the general case - the Night’s Watch consisting largely of rapists, thieves, murderers and others ne’erdowells, plus a smattering of ambitious third sons who never learned to play nicely. (In fact, really, how long before Sansa is reviewing this arrangement?). The whole arrangement is much older than King’s Landing. The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/534 "2019-05-22T13:47:47Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > In the series, Sam continually pointed out that the vow was not of celibacy, but of marriage and having children. > > “I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.” > > So as long as you don’t get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you’re good. True. However, Sam has revealed that Gilly is pregnant with his own child. But it’s not clear exactly what vow the maesters take. It won’t be identical to that of the Night’s Watch. (In any case, presumably King Bran has freed Sam of his Night’s Watch vow anyway, which the ruler can do. Stannis offered to do it for Jon.) It’s true that everyone will turn a blind eye to the fact that the Grand Maester has a family tucked away somewhere in Kings Landing, just as they did to Pycelle’s romps with prostitutes. > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Even then, you could argue that the ban is on recognized children. > > So have as many Snows as you want. Could be. With Catholic priests, the vow was so you would devote all your attention to the Church, rather than to supporting a family. With both the Night’s Watch and the Maesters, it’s presumably so you won’t be inclined to get involved in political or dynastic struggles. > [@Mogle](#): > > The whole arrangement is much older than King’s Landing. > The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ? 😛 Bran the Builder, a Stark, built the Wall and established the Watch in the first place thousands of years ago. As I said before, there’s no reason to suppose that the North won’t continue to participate in and support the Night’s Watch as a multinational force. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/535 "2019-05-22T14:07:36Z")
My head-canon says that after a few years of letting everything settle down, Bran is visited by a Red priestess, and lo, he can walk and fuck! A little spinal injury ought to be nothing for those who can raise the dead (that particular god willing.) Then one day he gets a dove (not a raven)-gram from Arya, who has discovered an entirely new continent of people she can steal the faces of. Sansa’s rule of the North is wise and long, and when you mention Jon Snow to anybody, they get a puzzled expression on their face and say “Who?” Meanwhile, north of the Wall, Ghost has found a dire wolf female and raises a family, but not before ripping Jon’s balls off for leaving him without so much as a pat on the head when he went south. Tormund fucks another bear. ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/536 "2019-05-22T14:34:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Being a maester is a technical degree, issued by the Citadel, based on knowledge. If Bran did that, it would be devaluing the value of the position. It would be like declaring someone a MD who hadn’t passed medical school. What would be the point? In any case, the ruler may be powerful but is not immune from political considerations. He’s probably not going to want to alienate one of the more powerful organizations in Westeros. You mean, like giving someone an honorary PhD? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/537 "2019-05-22T14:36:51Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > You mean, like giving someone an honorary PhD? Universities do that, not politicians. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/538 "2019-05-22T14:37:42Z")
Honorary PhDs aren’t expected to actually _use_ the degree. An MD (or Archmaestership) would be. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/539 "2019-05-22T14:49:58Z")
[The John Hughes ending.](https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1130581319593783296) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/540 "2019-05-22T14:55:11Z")
The King could certainly try to pressure the Citadel to make someone a maester or appoint them Grand Maester, but what would be the point? They’re not going to know any more. And Sam can sit on the Small Council whether he is Grand Maester or not; the King can create new positions if he wishes. The Citadel appoints the Grand Maester for King’s Landing, and he automatically has a seat on the Small Council (he’s the only member ex officio, and not appointed by the King) but he doesn’t have to be invited to meetings. Pycelle was disinvited to attend Small Council meetings at one point. Speaking of the Small Council, it is unclear why Bran needs a Master of Whisperers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=28)