# Game of Thrones 8.06 "The Iron Throne" 5/19/2019 Show Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204 "2019-05-19T21:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/581 "2019-05-22T20:28:37Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I did notice two very, VERY tall people walking with the group but I think it was mentioned that Wun Wun was the last of his kind, but I’m not sure. The very tall people were not quite Wun Wun sized but way taller than The Mountain, it seemed to me. > > Lots of hedging words there but I did notice the tall ones right away and thought, “Hey, they must be hybrids or something.” But (last ‘but’, I promise) this finale seemed much more focused on fan-service than in-story continuity, so. . . maybe giants? I noticed them, too. But I’m sure they said Wun Wun was the last of his kind. So maybe hybrids? (Mother giant, father human would have to be the only way \*that \*could work. :eek:) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/582 "2019-05-22T20:32:02Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Lots of hedging words there but I did notice the tall ones right away and thought, “Hey, they must be hybrids or something.” Tormund did sleep with a giant wife for three months. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/583 "2019-05-22T20:35:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Tormund did sleep with a giant wife for three months. He was only 10 at the time and she thought he was her baby. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/584 "2019-05-22T21:10:09Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The Grandmaester isn’t in charge of any other maesters or the Citadel. You’re getting him confused with the Archmaester. The Grandmaester is just the maester assigned to King’s Landing. More important than other maesters because he advises the monarch, but not in charge of other maesters or the Citadel like the Archmaester is. There are a number of archmaesters, not just one, who together make up the Council that governs the Order of Maesters. Each archmaester is supposed to be the foremost expert in a particular field. Together they vote on who gets to be Grand Maester of Kings Landing. Oddly, in the Small Council meeting, Tyrion refers to Samwell as “the Grand Maester,” and then Sam refers to himself as “the archmaester.” Even if Sam completed his studies there’s no way he should be one of the archmaesters at this point, especially since he has only one or two links on his chain. On the other hand, I don’t think that there’s a requirement that the Grand Maester actually be an archmaesters. I don’t think Pycelle was one. I think that John Bradley just flubbed his line in calling himself archmaester instead of Grand Maester. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/585 "2019-05-22T21:12:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sam refers to himself as “the archmaester.” FWIW, I heard the same line you’re referring to, but I did not interpret it to be Sam referring to himself, but rather to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/586 "2019-05-22T21:17:39Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > FWIW, I heard the same line you’re referring to, but I did not interpret it to be Sam referring to himself, but rather to someone else. Listening to it again, you may be right. Tyrion says that “clean water leads to a healthier population,” and Samwell replies, “The archmaester has done some studies on this…” Maybe he is referring to the Archmaester of Plumbing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/587 "2019-05-22T21:22:14Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > FWIW, I heard the same line you’re referring to, but I did not interpret it to be Sam referring to himself, but rather to someone else. Right, I think Sam is referring to someone at the Citadel who wrote “A Song of Ice and Fire”. Many people thought Sam would be the one who wrote it, but it appears he didn’t. He also mentions the Archmaester when discussing sewer systems. I assumed it was the same Archmaester, but I either forgot or never knew there was more than one Archmaester, so maybe these are different people. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/588 "2019-05-22T21:22:20Z")
I thought he said the archmaester wrote the book. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/589 "2019-05-22T21:26:48Z")
There’s more than one archmaester. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/590 "2019-05-22T21:33:25Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Right, I think Sam is referring to someone at the Citadel who wrote “A Song of Ice and Fire”. Many people thought Sam would be the one who wrote it, but it appears he didn’t. He also mentions the Archmaester when discussing sewer systems. I assumed it was the same Archmaester, but I either forgot or never knew there was more than one Archmaester, so maybe these are different people. Sam says that archmaester Ebrose wrote the book, who was the main maester he was working under at the Citadel. Ebrose was shown doing an autopsy, and told Sam that Jorah’s grayscale was too advanced to treat, so he was evidently a medical archmaester as well as an historian. So I guess it would make sense he had also done studies on how good water is related to health. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/591 "2019-05-22T21:39:10Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > For me the proof that we were presented with very poor writing was the Drogon scene taking Danny away. Sure it was a great visual and poignant scene but it shows how poor the writing was because it leds to nothing. > We have no clue of why Drogon did what he did and we have no clue were it is going and what it going to do… Just vanishes in the sky… > Its just another cheap shot writing. Those guys suck. That was probably my favorite scene this season. It was beautiful, lyrical and dreamlike, and it was the one scene where the show actually remembered that it was a fantasy story. Now, why Drogon did what he did… first of all, Dragons aren’t people and they aren’t animals, they’re magical creature, and in such, their motives are inscrutable to mortal man. Enchanted beings deal in symbolism, not in reasons. But if you want, my theory is that Dany and Drogon shared a deep psychic and emotional connection - he was, in effect, her familiar, and as such an extension of both her id and her subconscious. Thus, his motives were her motives, and his pain was her pain. He didn’t kill Jo because Dany loved him, despite what he did, and he destroyed the throne because Dany, dying, wanted to destroy it - whether out of spite, or anger at all the evil things she and others did in its name, or one last attempt to break the wheel. I also think that at some level, Dany knew what Jon was going to do, and agreed with him. That was the point of the since with Drogon shaking off the ash - he knew what Jon was going to do, and was giving him Dany’s permission to do what needed to be done. As to where he flew off at the end, my guess is to die, or at least to pass beyond the knowledge of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/592 "2019-05-22T22:38:55Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I noticed them, too. But I’m sure they said Wun Wun was the last of his kind. So maybe hybrids? (Mother giant, father human would have to be the only way \*that \*could work. :eek:) Isn’t that Hagrid? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/593 "2019-05-22T22:39:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > There are a number of archmaesters, not just one, who together make up the Council that governs the Order of Maesters. Each archmaester is supposed to be the foremost expert in a particular field. Together they vote on who gets to be Grand Maester of Kings Landing… And as to why the Archmaesters elected Sam Grand Maester; presumably it was “suggested” to them beforehand that the Crown would prefer him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/594 "2019-05-22T22:46:34Z")
If Drogon is just a big lizard with, say, dog-like intelligence, then how would he know that Jon killed Daenerys? All he knows is that he poked his head up and saw his mistress laying dead with a pointy thing sticking out of her. So maybe in his puny dragon brain he figured that the ‘enemy’ was the thing with all the other pointy things sticking out of it, so he attacked the throne. Jon was already ‘family’ to Drogon, so why would he do anything to him? If you have a dog as a pet, and the dog sees you and another family member fighting, the dog will probably just circle and whine, not knowing what to do. If a stranger attacks you, the dog will go after the stranger. If your dog walked into a room and saw you standing over a dead family member, it wouldn’t occur to the dog to attack you, because dogs can’t put cause-and-effect together like that. So, if you need to fanwank Drogon’s actions, and you assume he’s not very smart, then he either just blasted the nearest big thing other than Jon (who is family, and therefore not something Drogon would kill for no reason), or he attacked the throne because it was full of the things that killed Daenerys. Alternatively, if Drogon is really smart or really connected psychically to Daenerys, he may have sensed that everything she was doing was for that chair, and when she died, the chair had to go because it was the ‘enemy’ that killed her. Again, he didn’t see Jon Snow do the deed, and in his mind Jon Snow is accepted as one of the ‘good’ ones. It could easily be that someone else murdered Daeneris and Jon just arrived too late to save her. How would Drogon know? He didn’t witness the actual killing. But that damned chair is still sitting there, and he knows she ultimately died for it. So either way, Smart Drogon or Stupid Drogon, you can explain away his lashing out at the throne, and why he didn’t do anything to Jon Snow. Only if you assume that Drogon has human-level intelligence or above could you assume that he figured out throuigh deduction that Jon killed Daenerys. And in the show there is no evidence that dragons are any smarter than, say, Direwolves. The Direwolves also seemed to have a sixth sense regarding the needs and desires of their masters. But they wouldn’t be able to forensically deconstruct a murder scene and go after the guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/595 "2019-05-22T22:59:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So, if you need to fanwank Drogon’s actions, and you assume he’s not very smart, then he either just blasted the nearest big thing other than Jon (who is family, and therefore not something Drogon would kill for no reason), or he attacked the throne because it was full of the things that killed Daenerys. If he’s dog-like, maybe he could just smell that an unfamiliar dragon had burned the throne and was compelled to burninate it to assert his dominance. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/596 "2019-05-22T23:10:51Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And as to why the Archmaesters elected Sam Grand Maester; presumably it was “suggested” to them beforehand that the Crown would prefer him. Certainly no one as junior as Sam would have been selected unless the archmaesters recognized the value of having a representative with friends in high places. The King can’t order them to select someone, but the maesters can certainly pick someone for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/597 "2019-05-22T23:25:20Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I noticed them, too. But I’m sure they said Wun Wun was the last of his kind. I thought they said he was the last giant _King_. Or was that the giant who charged through the gates and killed Jon’s buddy (and died himself) after Jon ordered him to make his final stand holding the tunnel? I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/598 "2019-05-22T23:52:42Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I thought they said he was the last giant _King_. Or was that the giant who charged through the gates and killed Jon’s buddy (and died himself) after Jon ordered him to make his final stand holding the tunnel? I can’t remember. I think one of the giants killed while assaulting the tunnel was said to have been the last of a great house. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/599 "2019-05-23T00:12:49Z")
Just looked up a youtube clip of Jon talking with Mance after the battle at Castle Black and Mance says Mag (the one who died in the tunnel) was the giants king, last of a blood line that stretches back before the first men. I think that’s the line I was remembering. So Wun Wun might not have been the last, if the any of them escaped the Night King. We only saw a few when he attacked Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204/600 "2019-05-23T01:33:28Z")
> [@Art\_Rock](#): > > I agree with a lot in your post, but we should also consider the alternative futures that he may (or may not) have seen > … > there may not have been any possible future scenario that lead to Dany’s death without the destruction of KL. Would Jon be a better king than Bran? Doubtful. He means well, but he doesn’t want it, knows nothing, and has shown bad judgement on several occasions. So Bran may have concluded that the future scenario he set in motion (as master puppeteer) was the best one for the people. > [@clairobscur](#): > > My interpretation was rather that he knows (or believe) that what happens must happen. He more or less said to both Jaime and Jon that they were exactly where they had to be or did exactly what they had to do. It seemed pretty fatalistic to me. > > So, my assumption was that he knew he would be king, whether he liked it or not. Jaime couldn’t not have pushed him out of the windows. Jon couldn’t not be in the North. He couldn’t not become king. Everything was already “written”, more or less. > > A more optimistic view would be that things could have happened differently, but the way they happened was the only way leading to a positive outcome. If Jaime hadn’t pushed Bran out of the window, he wouldn’t have become the three eyed raven, and the Night Walkers would have won. In this case, it might apply to Bran becoming king too. It might be the only choice that won’t result in a civil war, for instance. Yes, I had been considering this as well, that he sees the path that best, or perhaps just least-badly, serves humanity in the long run, requires that atrocious things be allowed to happen and that many will suffer or be denied fairness or justice in the short run. So he honestly did not \*want \*to be king in the temporal plane, in the sense of desiring it, as he is not subject to desires any more, but he will be accept and participate in what is a needed thing for restoring normality in the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-8-06-the-iron-throne-5-19-2019-show-discussion/834204.md?page=31)