# Game of Thrones, Baelor, 6/12/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243 "2011-06-12T20:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/181 "2011-06-14T12:46:29Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Watched the first part again. First, wherever they caught him, it seems to be a distance from the Wall based on topography and climate. Second, the deserter said he didn’t go back to the Wall and worn anyone. So it would seem he didn’t go through the Wall at the Castle Black gate. > > I dunno. Fair question. Also, the guys who apprehended him had rounded “northern guy” helmets and were not wearing only black, therefore they were not Night’s Watch…men. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/182 "2011-06-14T13:25:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I distinctly remember his superior officer threatening to have him killed for cowardice. His superior officer was a douchebag who was throwing his weight around. It’s possible to argue that the douchebag would have been totally wrong to execute him for cowardice, whereas Stark was totally right to execute him for desertion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/183 "2011-06-14T13:32:46Z")
The execution was for desertion. Desertion from the Wall always buys an automatic execution, no exceptions. That was a case of Ned being faithful to his perceived “duty.” ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/184 "2011-06-14T14:56:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I distinctly remember his superior officer threatening to have him killed for cowardice. He says, “If you want to run away south, run away. Of course, they will behead you as a deserter.” ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/185 "2011-06-14T16:13:22Z")
Not to fanwank too much, but I was thinking about Cersi not countermanding her son, and realizing that, honestly, there are times you’re just too gobsmacked to do the right thing. I can imagine Cersi standing there, thinking, “We have the hostage, we have him as a villain we can dispose of as we like, and he’s even supporting my son as king. I’ve got every— What? What did my son just say?!” I’d even go so far as to say Martin writes this way; that people in GoT do tend to act emotionally (or physically) gut-punched at times. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/186 "2011-06-14T17:20:29Z")
I watched the execution scene again. After Joffrey announces his decision, Sansa shouts and cries; Cersei is clearly upset and tries to talk to Joffrey, who waves her off; Pycelle agitatedly waves his hands a little; and Varys comes, robes a-flapping, over from the other side of Ned, apparently to try to dissuade Joffrey. You see Littlefinger then standing near Varys, but apparently not trying to sway the young king. As the executioner approaches Ned, sword drawn, you see Cersei looking unhappy but doing nothing. I also noticed a definite Christ-at-Golgotha vibe to Ned in his last scene - facing an angry crowd, calm if somewhat stunned as he awaits his fate, with a closeup on his bearded face. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/187 "2011-06-14T17:49:20Z")
That kid playing Joffrey is doing a good job. He can make you want to smack him without even opening his mouth. I actually worry a little that the actor might get grief in real life for it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/188 "2011-06-14T17:57:16Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Are you also one of those people that had a “religious experience” when you saw Avatar? Careful. There’s a few die-hards around here who’ve yet to wash off their blue face paint. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/189 "2011-06-14T18:57:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That kid playing Joffrey is doing a good job. He can make you want to smack him without even opening his mouth. I actually worry a little that the actor might get grief in real life for it. OTOH, this is great training to become the fiercest CEO the world has ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/190 "2011-06-14T19:15:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > OTOH, this is great training to become the fiercest CEO the world has ever seen. Or a winnowing technique that selects out psychopaths to govern. Which seems to happen a lot in human history … ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/191 "2011-06-14T19:20:05Z")
I just realized this kid is a miniature Donald Trump with better hair. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/192 "2011-06-14T19:27:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I have to admit that I didn’t expect that ending. I figured that Sean Bean was the best-known actor in the show, and so he’d survive. Is it wrong that after the blade fell on Stark at the end, my first thought was: “Still not king” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/193 "2011-06-14T19:41:37Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Is it wrong that after the blade fell on Stark at the end, my first thought was: > > “Still not king” _snerk_ My only objection is that I didn’t think of it myself… ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/194 "2011-06-14T20:04:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I have to admit that I didn’t expect that ending. I figured that Sean Bean was the best-known actor in the show, and so he’d survive. I thought his death would have been predictable, because HBO wouldn’t want to pay Bean for more than one season. I’m a reader, and I accidentally spoiled this for my husband when the show was first announced. “Oh, Sean Bean is perfect, and he only has to commit for one season!” ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/195 "2011-06-14T22:04:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I watched the execution scene again. After Joffrey announces his decision, Sansa shouts and cries; Cersei is clearly upset and tries to talk to Joffrey, who waves her off; Pycelle agitatedly waves his hands a little; and Varys comes, robes a-flapping, over from the other side of Ned, apparently to try to dissuade Joffrey. You see Littlefinger then standing near Varys, but apparently not trying to sway the young king. As the executioner approaches Ned, sword drawn, you see Cersei looking unhappy but doing nothing. > > I also noticed a definite Christ-at-Golgotha vibe to Ned in his last scene - facing an angry crowd, calm if somewhat stunned as he awaits his fate, with a closeup on his bearded face. Good summary. Yeah, I suspect we’ll find out that Joffrey was persuaded by Littlefinger to issue the death sentence. Even if we don’t find that out, I still think Littlefinger put him up to it. After he put a knife to Ned’s throat and thoroughly betrayed him, one of them had to kill the other. As for his plans to get Cat, I wonder how he expects that to happen, given that she is sure to get word of his treachery against Ned. I forget, was Sansa there in the throne-room when Littlefinger put the knife to Ned’s throat? Not that it matters much, since I’m sure someone else (Varys?) who was there would eventually tell Cat. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/196 "2011-06-14T22:06:50Z")
I watched the episode again last night and tried to hear what Cersei said to Joffrey right after he said “Bring me his head.” Does anyone know, or have closed captioning and can tell me? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/197 "2011-06-14T22:12:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That kid playing Joffrey is doing a good job. He can make you want to smack him without even opening his mouth. I actually worry a little that the actor might get grief in real life for it. I’ve been wondering if the kid is a really good actor, or if the casting director said “find me the douchiest kid you can find, and tell him he’s the star of the show” ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/198 "2011-06-14T22:20:07Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Good summary. Yeah, I suspect we’ll find out that Joffrey was persuaded by Littlefinger to issue the death sentence. Even if we don’t find that out, I still think Littlefinger put him up to it. After he put a knife to Ned’s throat and thoroughly betrayed him, one of them had to kill the other. > > As for his plans to get Cat, I wonder how he expects that to happen, given that she is sure to get word of his treachery against Ned. I forget, was Sansa there in the throne-room when Littlefinger put the knife to Ned’s throat? Not that it matters much, since I’m sure someone else (Varys?) who was there would eventually tell Cat. He’s not out to get Cat. He’s out to SHOW THEM ALL!!! that he was good enough for Cat back then and he’s better than all of them now. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/199 "2011-06-14T22:21:27Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve been wondering if the kid is a really good actor, or if the casting director said “find me the douchiest kid you can find, and tell him he’s the star of the show” I lol’d. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/200 "2011-06-14T23:01:13Z")
It’s kinda sad that the shocking ending took so much away from other great scenes like the Aemon Targaryen reveal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=11)