# Game of Thrones, Baelor, 6/12/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243 "2011-06-12T20:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/21 "2011-06-13T03:23:46Z")
The actor playing Joffrey is doing it so perfectly. I hate that slimy bastard. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/22 "2011-06-13T03:27:44Z")
> [@Justin\_Credible](#): > > I can’t believe they completely cut out both battles. That was pretty disappointing. Other than that, great episode. Yeah, that stings. Not because of how this episode turned out, but for the future. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/23 "2011-06-13T03:46:03Z")
I am really disappointed about Ned. What a mess. It’s not just that I liked the character - imo, the strength and honor of this character was essential to the interest and depth of the show. He was the show’s ultimate good guy. I think the writer(s) made a huge fuckup on this one. Nothing that happens now can adequately avenge this event. No justice can amend. What a shallow turn the story has taken. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/24 "2011-06-13T03:47:57Z")
“shallow” ? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/25 "2011-06-13T03:57:04Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > I am really disappointed about Ned. What a mess. It’s not just that I liked the character - imo, the strength and honor of this character was essential to the interest and depth of the show. He was the show’s ultimate good guy. > > I think the writer(s) made a huge fuckup on this one. Nothing that happens now can adequately avenge this event. No justice can amend. What a shallow turn the story has taken. That’s kind of the point. The world Martin created has no clear lines between good and evil, and the bad guys frequently win. If you were expecting standard fantasy tropes, this episode should have gotten you to realize that this isn’t that kind of story. It’s not in the least bit shallow, though. Shallow is freeing Ned through last minute tricks, causing him to be the vanquishing hero. What actually happened is gritty and real. If you don’t like that, this may not be the show for you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/26 "2011-06-13T03:57:28Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > I am really disappointed about Ned. What a mess. It’s not just that I liked the character - imo, the strength and honor of this character was essential to the interest and depth of the show. He was the show’s ultimate good guy. > > I think the writer(s) made a huge fuckup on this one. Nothing that happens now can adequately avenge this event. No justice can amend. What a shallow turn the story has taken. It’s tough, and it’s one of the defining moments of the series, but it’s not shallow. It’s really just the opposite. GRRM wanted to make his story more like real history and less like pre-ordained, conventional storytelling. In real life, gut wrenching injustice really happens, and total shits like Joffrey sometimes win. The story is worth staying with, though. I know that’s a tough scene to get past. I think it’s the part where a lot of people throw the book across the room, then pick it up again a week later. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/27 "2011-06-13T03:57:37Z")
Yes. Shallow. It’s the opposite of depth. What is the point of this show or any show? To see how many whores can get their tits tweaked? or how many people can get killed in gory fashion? There’s got to be some point to the violence. Look at the remaining characters. If all the antagonists were rounded up all at once and done in, it doesn’t justify not just the death of Ned, but his loss of honor at the same time. What a pointless and cheap show this is now. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/28 "2011-06-13T03:59:10Z")
So depth is when good triumphs no matter what? ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/29 "2011-06-13T04:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > So depth is when good triumphs no matter what? No matter what!? What if we could see a show like Death Wish, but instead of the Bronson character avenging his family, the story centered on hoodlums simply ransacking good folks with no rhyme or reason. There was no main protagonist because they got killed off. Would there be any point in the story? Or would the point be that that is more realistic? Ultimately it’s an entertainment fantasy theme. Gore and whores do not give a story depth, it’s characters like Ned that lend that element - when there is no minimal justice in a story, all you have left is gore and whores. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/30 "2011-06-13T04:12:21Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Yes. Shallow. It’s the opposite of depth. What is the point of this show or any show? To see how many whores can get their tits tweaked? or how many people can get killed in gory fashion? There’s got to be some point to the violence. Look at the remaining characters. If all the antagonists were rounded up all at once and done in, it doesn’t justify not just the death of Ned, but his loss of honor at the same time. What a pointless and cheap show this is now. Wow, what an odd point of view. Are you saying that all fictional narratives have to end with good triumphing over evil to have any worth? That’s just bizarre. Have you never encountered any tragic works? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/31 "2011-06-13T04:23:02Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Yes. Shallow. It’s the opposite of depth. What is the point of this show or any show? To see how many whores can get their tits tweaked? or how many people can get killed in gory fashion? There’s got to be some point to the violence. Look at the remaining characters. If all the antagonists were rounded up all at once and done in, it doesn’t justify not just the death of Ned, but his loss of honor at the same time. What a pointless and cheap show this is now. This seriously isn’t the series for you if that’s how you feel about what happened to Ned. Trust me. That said, I’m incredibly proud of myself and the other book-readers on the Dope for managing to keep that little spoiler under wraps through the whole season. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/32 "2011-06-13T04:41:26Z")
FTR: I have not read the books. Hell, when people started talking about George R.R. Martin, I thought they were talking about an illustrator for _Mad_ magazine when I was a kid. The books and author just have not been on my radar. So I appreciate not having that spoiled. I thought Ned would survive. I didn’t see how, but since he’s been played up as the hero I thought he’d make it through this crisis. When the scene started playing out, I suspected he’d be double-crossed. I didn’t think they’d do him right then, though. Maybe Arya would make it in time and stab Joffrey, allowing Ned to escape in the ruckus. (Arya would then use her size to advantage and slip away.) When Ned lost his head, I was surprised. And losing his honour before losing his life was a nice (story-wise) twist of the knife. To be honest, I don’t see how anyone else can fill his role in the narrative. He was a good character. But there are enough characters (I can’t keep them all straight) that I’m sure there will be some good developments. And the intrigue will be even more deadly than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/33 "2011-06-13T04:47:31Z")
BTW, what about Drogo? I wonder if he survived. And even if he does, will his wife survive the wrath of the other Dothrakis? ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/34 "2011-06-13T05:07:14Z")
Great episode, love this show, unfortunatly I didn’t avoid the spoiler about Ned somewhere else on the web. Any idea why this show was called Baelor? Must be a character I am supposed to know, but which one was/is he? ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/35 "2011-06-13T05:08:11Z")
Not a character, a settings. The steps of Baelor is where the ending scene took place. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/36 "2011-06-13T05:12:26Z")
Also the statue were Arya was looking at Ned was the statue of Baelor, and Ned says “Baelor” to hmmm… Yoren? so he will go save Arya. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/37 "2011-06-13T05:18:00Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Also the statue were Arya was looking at Ned was the statue of Baelor, and Ned says “Baelor” to hmmm… Yoren? so he will go save Arya. I was wondering what Ned said to Yoren. I couldn’t make it out. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/38 "2011-06-13T05:39:12Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > Not a character, a settings. The steps of Baelor is where the ending scene took place. The sept of Baelor, I believe. Not steps. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/39 "2011-06-13T05:39:44Z")
Ahh ok, so who was Baelor , unless it is too spoilery. I am hoping that Jofferys move will case some major grief for him in the long run. Did’t his mother warn him several episodes back, when he was talking about raising a standing army, that pissing of the Starks would be a bad idea? Meanwhile back at the Stark camp upon hearing the news of Neds death Theon: You okay? Robb: Nah, man. I’m pretty fucking far from okay. Theon: What now? Robb: What now? Let me tell you what now. I’m gonna call a couple of hard, axe-hitting bannermen to go to work on the little freak with a pair of nut crackers and a spoon. [to Joffery as if he were there] You hear me talking, inbred boy? I ain’t through with you by a damn sight. I’m gonna get medieval on your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/40 "2011-06-13T05:47:18Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Ahh ok, so who was Baelor , unless it is too spoilery. An old, religious king, nicknamed Baelor the Blessed. Robert mentions him when he’s teasing Ned in the first episode. Second? Early on, anyway. (‘No woman wants Baelor the Blessed in her bed!’ was the line, or approximately that.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=3)