# Game of Thrones, Baelor, 6/12/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243 "2011-06-12T20:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/101 "2011-06-13T21:29:04Z")
Littlefinger basically hand held Ned through the discovery so he must know. Stannis has to know since Ned wrote him, and i believe he was the one who told Jon Arryn in the first place too and that is why he bailed from King’s Landing. The thing is there is no DNA testing so the only proof is “look at how blonde he is!”, the truth of Joffreys parentage will be decided by whoever wins the war. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/102 "2011-06-13T21:40:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Littlefinger basically hand held Ned through the discovery so he must know. Stannis has to know since Ned wrote him, and i believe he was the one who told Jon Arryn in the first place too and that is why he bailed from King’s Landing. The thing is there is no DNA testing so the only proof is “look at how blonde he is!”, the truth of Joffreys parentage will be decided by whoever wins the war. Ned announced it in throne room just before he was arrested, didn’t he? Given the number of low-level functionaries that were there, I’d imagine pretty much everyone in the Kingdom will know Ned made the claim, even if they don’t know the specifics of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/103 "2011-06-13T21:45:08Z")
I recall Ned’s saying that Joffrey had “no claim to the throne,” but I don’t recalling his going into the details. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/104 "2011-06-13T21:47:17Z")
But anyone can claim anything they want too, when it is seen as a shameless power grab it loses power. Stannis saying “I’m your rightful king because Joffrey is the incestuous spawn of Cersei and Jamie” carries as much weight as Joffreys “Stannis is a traitor to the throne”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/105 "2011-06-13T21:52:46Z")
[They killed Larry’s nigga Ned!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owf6D2vfZqM) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/106 "2011-06-13T21:55:38Z")
“Fuck the blond man!” ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/107 "2011-06-13T22:05:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was also a clear “head chopped off” sound effect. If you watch in slow motion, it’s 100% clear. The blade goes through his neck and his head begins to fall. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/108 "2011-06-13T22:22:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You might be right but all I know is that in “You Win or You Die,” Ned is told by a courier or whatever that “King Joffrey and the Queen Regent request your presence before the throne.” I can’t recall anything that indicated that Cersei’s regency ended with the coronation. I am only using that same information. My understanding is that the coronation, by definition, removes the regency and that Joffrey demanded it happen “within the fortnight”. I could be wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/109 "2011-06-13T22:34:14Z")
I don’t see any reason to make that assumption. In the real world, coronations aren’t an official beginning or end to any particular status. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/110 "2011-06-13T22:52:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see any reason to make that assumption. In the real world, coronations aren’t an official beginning or end to any particular status. Well all right then. I am going to take the I could be wrong weasel path that I left open for myself and sneak away from this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/111 "2011-06-13T22:57:56Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And the scene between Aemon and Jon was great as well and helped to frame Ned’s choices and his tragedy. Even so, Jon has his own choice to make. It’s obvious that he is troubled, “My father’s in prison and my brother is marching to war!” Aemon’s tale is pointed directly to Jon, “I could have sat the Iron Throne, yet here I am.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/112 "2011-06-13T23:06:08Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Well all right then. I am going to take the I could be wrong weasel path that I left open for myself and sneak away from this conversation. Well, I dunno. There’s a difference between being a regent for a six-year-old and being a regent for a mid-teen. Cersei may technically still be regent for Joffrey, but he’s old enough that his orders will be obeyed. The key point is, even if she is regent, she’s not going to overrule him in public. He has to be _seen_ to be King. When the shots were shown that included Sansa struggling, I (perhaps only in my imagination) saw a, “Wait till I get you home,” body expression on Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/113 "2011-06-13T23:17:31Z")
As I understand it, a regent exercises the royal authority until the heir comes of age. If Cersei was regent, Joffrey didn’t have the authority to order the execution, and certainly not directly contrary to the regent’s orders. So I’m guessing by the way it played out, he was king and she was no longer regent. We don’t know exactly how long Ned was down in the dungeon, do we? In the last episode they talked about plans to have him crowned within a few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Spectralist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Spectralist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectralist)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/114 "2011-06-13T23:20:14Z")
Even if Cersei is still regent she might be unwilling to undermine Joffrey’s authority so publicly. And even if she did her orders might be ignored by people who know Joffrey will soon have absolute authority and want to get on his good side. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/115 "2011-06-13T23:27:24Z")
ROME also made you feel cheated on the battle scenes (or lack of). You’d see the armies preparing, the generals being armored, and then… “Man, that was some battle!” afterwards. Unfortunately it was never that surprising who did and didn’t survive (you kind of know that Antony and Cleopatra aren’t going to take Rome). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/116 "2011-06-13T23:28:21Z")
Regent or not, there was no way she could countermand Joffrey’s order in front of that bloodthirsty crowd. Burn King’s Landing to the ground, I say! ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/117 "2011-06-13T23:29:14Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > Even if Cersei is still regent she might be unwilling to undermine Joffrey’s authority so publicly. And even if she did her orders might be ignored by people who know Joffrey will soon have absolute authority and want to get on his good side. She was visibly angry with him on the stage, so anyone who was there would know she wasn’t too happy with the head chop. Could be chalked up to shock or womanly pity by a witness, but still they would have to know she wasn’t supportive of Joffrey’s move at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/118 "2011-06-13T23:31:19Z")
Plus Joffrey says Cersei “asked” him for mercy. A regent doesn’t do that – a regent commands. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/119 "2011-06-13T23:32:27Z")
Since Joff did preface his order with ‘My mother and betrothed want me to let him live, but they’re weak women’, I’m sure everyone knew even without looking at Cersei that she wasn’t going to be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/120 "2011-06-13T23:34:38Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Plus Joffrey says Cersei “asked” him for mercy. A regent doesn’t do that – a regent commands. She probably did phrase it as a command, but the king isn’t going to say how his mommy commanded him to do anything. a king has to appear regal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=7)