# Game of Thrones, Baelor, 6/12/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243 "2011-06-12T20:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/141 "2011-06-14T01:56:01Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > That really was difficult to watch, Myself and many people are upset about the death of Ned Stark, now I understand it’s a series based on books but a few people made good points. In the True Blood series many people who died in the books were saved on the show. I’m usually pro-people making changes to books when adapting them to film, but Ned’s death is probably the main thing people remember from the book. It’d be bizarre to bother making a Game of Thrones series and skip the pivotal point. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/142 "2011-06-14T01:57:08Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > …Robert knew he’d be a crap king even without knowing he wasn’t his, Ned knew he’d be a crap king, even before figuring out he was a bastard… Why do you say this? Robert was explicit in naming Joffrey as his heir in this final will. He may think Joff is not _ready_ to be king – yet. I see that as something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/143 "2011-06-14T02:02:34Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Ned \*had \*to die. I have read the books but I realized this even before I read any of the others. If Ned doesn’t die the whole series becomes Ned’s story. He is too good for it to be avoided, and the series isn’t and shouldn’t be about Ned. It’s about Westros and the Seven Kingdoms and the whole of the world. The most important line in the series so far (IMO) is Vary’s line “I serve the realm”. That’s this story, it’s the story of the realm, not any one particular player. Ned was too big to live in that world. He is a product of an era long since gone by and the story can’t move on to tell the story of this new era without first killing off the last of the old one. > > The story so far is all prologue. It’s the Hobbit to the rest of the story’s Lord of the Rings. Perfectly put, thank you. I’ve read the books \ probably half a dozen times, and your words put that into a perspective I hadn’t quite peeked from before. Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/144 "2011-06-14T02:05:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why do you say this? Robert was explicit in naming Joffrey as his heir in this final will. He may think Joff is not _ready_ to be king – yet. I see that as something else entirely. He refers to Joffrey as a little shit at various points, and his instructions to Ned when on his death bed are ‘make him a better man’ - he has no illusions about what Joffrey is, that’s why he wanted Ned to be Regent, to keep him in check and try to mold him into a suitable king. ---
**Author:** ![Cameleon01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@Cameleon01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cameleon01)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/145 "2011-06-14T02:06:26Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What heroes are allowed to die? Why is Ned not one of those? > > Didn’t we just do this? Ok This is the first time I post on any blog so, I really don’t know the etiquette, but all I’m talking about is an opinion about a show that I see everyone else has an opinion on, If you don’t like my opinion don’t answer, that’s simple I won’t engage in childish banter with anyone so please if you don’t like what I say keep your negative comments to yourself ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/146 "2011-06-14T02:11:42Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > Ok This is the first time I post on any blog so, I really don’t know the etiquette, but all I’m talking about is an opinion about a show that I see everyone else has an opinion on, If you don’t like my opinion don’t answer, that’s simple I won’t engage in childish banter with anyone so please if you don’t like what I say keep your negative comments to yourself Sadly, you’re wrong: you STILL haven’t posted on a blog :). What brings you to this messageboard? Because what we do here is talk about our opinions, sometimes a little roughly. You offered yours, and folks thought it was silly, and told you so. Without saying anything spoilerish, I’ll remind folks that there’s just one more episode in the season. Before you decide to give up on the show, I humbly suggest you watch for one more week. ---
**Author:** ![Cameleon01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@Cameleon01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cameleon01)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/147 "2011-06-14T02:12:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m going to miss Ned too, but killing main loved characters is one way to make the story more compelling. In a tv show where you know nothing truly bad will ever happen to our heroes, you always know they’ll get out of their current predicament, and at the end of the episode everything will be alright. So there’s never true tension - you’re never in doubt that these characters you’ll care about will die. But if you do kill a main, heroic character - you show the audience that anyone can die at any time, and that there’s no ultimate justice in this show. It’s not going to softball you. It can be harder to watch, but it also makes you more involved. I see your point like I said I just think in my opinion it could’ve waited, but why do I know? Let’s see if I’m right and the neilsen ratings drop ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/148 "2011-06-14T02:14:55Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > If you don’t like my opinion don’t answer, that’s simple I won’t engage in childish banter with anyone so please if you don’t like what I say keep your negative comments to yourself If you’ll notice, this thread is chock-full of posters disagreeing with each other, as is this message board in general. What, exactly, was childish banter in my response to you? ---
**Author:** ![Cameleon01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@Cameleon01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cameleon01)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/149 "2011-06-14T02:15:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Sadly, you’re wrong: you STILL haven’t posted on a blog :). What brings you to this messageboard? > > Because what we do here is talk about our opinions, sometimes a little roughly. You offered yours, and folks thought it was silly, and told you so. > > Without saying anything spoilerish, I’ll remind folks that there’s just one more episode in the season. Before you decide to give up on the show, I humbly suggest you watch for one more week. I don’t have a problem with anyone who disagrees with me as a matter of fact I welcome an educated discussion but Im not going to be YELLED at by someone who can’t respect my opinion without trying to call it silly, I think that’s cowardly ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/150 "2011-06-14T02:16:49Z")
I don’t look to popularity to form my opinion of literature. The lowest common denominator produces the blandest fare. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/151 "2011-06-14T02:18:45Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > I don’t have a problem with anyone who disagrees with me as a matter of fact I welcome an educated discussion but Im not going to be YELLED at by someone who can’t respect my opinion without trying to call it silly, I think that’s cowardly Who YELLED at you? Who called your opinion silly? > [@Frank](#): > > What heroes are allowed to die? Why is Ned not one of those? This? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/152 "2011-06-14T02:18:51Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > I don’t have a problem with anyone who disagrees with me as a matter of fact I welcome an educated discussion but Im not going to be YELLED at by someone who can’t respect my opinion without trying to call it silly, I think that’s cowardly I welcome an educated discussion, too, especially one with punctuation. Nobody yelled at you, kiddo. Don’t take it so personally. On the same token, nobody’s required to respect your opinion if it’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/153 "2011-06-14T02:20:36Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > Ok This is the first time I post on any blog so, I really don’t know the etiquette, but all I’m talking about is an opinion about a show that I see everyone else has an opinion on, If you don’t like my opinion don’t answer, that’s simple I won’t engage in childish banter with anyone so please if you don’t like what I say keep your negative comments to yourself You’re misunderstanding. Someone else ( **The Lone Cashew** ) has decided that the show is “shallow” for killing off a main character. So now that Ned is dead the show is nothing but gore and sex. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/154 "2011-06-14T02:30:05Z")
This episode is the one that convinced me that Martin may be worth reading. The best writers are the ones that have no mercy for their characters and pay strict respect to the inner logic of the worlds they have created – Herman Melville, Mark Twain, Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, Edgar Allen Poe … ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/155 "2011-06-14T02:50:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This episode is the one that convinced me that Martin may be worth reading. The best writers are the ones that have no mercy for their characters and pay strict respect to the inner logic of the worlds they have created – Herman Melville, Mark Twain, Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, Edgar Allen Poe … Ned’s death is basically why the books are not considered run of the mill fantasy also. There would be no point whatsoever in even making the show if you were going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/156 "2011-06-14T03:00:13Z")
> [@Spectralist](#): > > Even if Cersei is still regent she might be unwilling to undermine Joffrey’s authority so publicly. And even if she did her orders might be ignored by people who know Joffrey will soon have absolute authority and want to get on his good side. Cersei not countermanding the little prick’s order is also a nice counterpoint to what we saw with Catelyn and Robb. Both mothers have to let their sons find their own way. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/157 "2011-06-14T03:17:27Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > That really was difficult to watch, Myself and many people are upset about the death of Ned Stark, now I understand it’s a series based on books but a few people made good points. In the True Blood series many people who died in the books were saved on the show. That isn’t true. There’s only one character on True Blood who is alive on the show but dead in the book, and he is far far less important to TB than Ned was to GoT. Layatte being alive doesn’t really change anything much (other than sparing us a season two that would have been much stupider than the Maryanne story-arc) but leaving Ned alive would have changed things far too much. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/158 "2011-06-14T03:29:48Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > That isn’t true. There’s only one character on True Blood who is alive on the show but dead in the book, and he is far far less important to TB than Ned was to GoT. Layatte being alive doesn’t really change anything much (other than sparing us a season two that would have been much stupider than the Maryanne story-arc) but leaving Ned alive would have changed things far too much. Indeed. Contrary to some of the nay-sayers, sparing Ned’s life would have destroyed the heart of the story, in much the same way that Hamlet would have been a different story if everyone had made up at the end. I do like what I read elsewhere, though. People who are denying that Ned is dead are in the first stage of grief. People hating on HBO are in the second. Some people will doubtless start coming up with bargains: “Maybe they can bring him back in dream sequences. Maybe it’s his twin brother who died! HBO, if you bring him back, I promise to renew my subscription!” Finally they’ll accept and move on. If a show can put you through the stages of grief, it’s probably doing something right. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/159 "2011-06-14T03:44:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …Without saying anything spoilerish, I’ll remind folks that there’s just one more episode in the season. Before you decide to give up on the show, I humbly suggest you watch for one more week. Strongly seconded. And many might then begin counting the days until the second season… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/160 "2011-06-14T03:46:41Z")
I think I know what the last scene is going to be. At least I know what it _should_ be. It doesn’t make up for Ned, but it is somewhat of a balm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=9)