# Game of Thrones, Baelor, 6/12/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243 "2011-06-12T20:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/161 "2011-06-14T03:51:15Z")
For those who love Tyrion and loathe Joffrey: [Tyrion Slaps Joffrey For 10 Minutes To Achilles Last Stand - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYNeT2nzEgA&NR=1) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/162 "2011-06-14T03:57:45Z")
Video delivers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/163 "2011-06-14T04:37:38Z")
I kinda figured Ned was a goner when I saw a beheading was intended. What’s the first scene where we see Ned? When he beheads a young warrior … a very young warrior … for cowardice. You know how writers like these things to even up. Plus, I never thought Ned was much of a saint, because of that beheading scene. He killed the young guy like he was slitting the throat of a pig, very matter of fact about it, because he was accused of cowardice. Now, the guy may have been a coward, but I think he was also being smart … after seeing what had happened to the camp, the guy correctly figured that he and two others were no match for whatever had done that. And he was right, of course. So Ned killed a guy for what … being smart? I wasn’t exactly ENAMORED of him at that point, and he did make a lot of dumbass moves after that. How quickly we forget … ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/164 "2011-06-14T04:42:00Z")
The deserter should have gone back to the Wall to warn his comrades of what he had seen. Instead he deserted. That’s a pretty serious offense for a soldier. You can argue that it’s “smart” for a soldier to run in the face of an insurmountable threat, but allowing soldiers to do so with impunity seems like a poor policy. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/165 "2011-06-14T04:46:11Z")
He wasn’t executed for cowardice, he was executed for breaking a sacred vow (literally - taken in a sept, or a godswood)…the only way out of the Night’s Watch once you’ve taken your vow is death - either you die at the hands of a Wildling (or Other), you die of old age at your post, or you desert, and get executed by the first man of authority who gets his hands on you. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/166 "2011-06-14T04:57:56Z")
About those initial scenes, are we to believe that the survivor after having come back to the south of the Wall, decided to avoid the Night’s Watch fort, stationed right there, and decided to hike a few hundred miles on foot? I suppose the only point of that sequence of events was to introduce Ned as a righteous man of honor, who does his dirty work himself. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/167 "2011-06-14T05:07:08Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > About those initial scenes, are we to believe that the survivor after having come back to the south of the Wall, decided to avoid the Night’s Watch fort, stationed right there, and decided to hike a few hundred miles on foot? I suppose the only point of that sequence of events was to introduce Ned as a righteous man of honor, who does his dirty work himself. I understand the Wall is several hundred miles long and there are numerous forts/castles along its stretch. Some of which have been abandoned and would make passing through easier. Which is how I assume some of the wildlings have made it south of the Wall. Or he could have gone through the gate at Castle Black, raving about zombies. They stick him in the infirmary and he high-tailed in the middle of the night. He would have made it several miles if he was crazy with fear before they caught up with him. They send a raven to Winterfell, telling Ned that they got a deserter, and since he’s warden of the North, its his position to deal with the deserter one way or the other. I don’t know how far Winterfell is from where they wound up executing the guy, but it seems like its a bit of ride to get there. 30-40 miles, I guess. Unless I’m not understanding the question. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/168 "2011-06-14T05:25:13Z")
I figure they’ll bring Ned back every season without explanation,and then kill him again as a running gag. Like Kenny on South Park. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/169 "2011-06-14T05:49:30Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > I understand the Wall is several hundred miles long and there are numerous forts/castles along its stretch. Some of which have been abandoned and would make passing through easier. Which is how I assume some of the wildlings have made it south of the Wall. If the wall is several hundred miles long, then Winterfell is almost a thousand miles to the South. [Check](http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/locations/castle-black/) the map at HBO Viewer’s Guide. The forts may be abandoned but the nearby passages through the Wall would remain gated. Else there’s no point to the Wall. The initial expedition of three would have been stationed at one of the manned forts and dispatched from there. They would have transgressed the Wall at a nearby opening (remember the gate was manually raised open) and the survivor likely would have returned the same way. At that point, his assigned base would be at most a few hundred feet away, and Winterfell and its vicinity a thousand miles. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/170 "2011-06-14T05:55:53Z")
Obviously there are ways to pass through the Wall - the wildlings that attacked Bran came from the north and managed to avoid capture. Also they may have caught the deserter somewhere between the Wall and Winterfell, and then taken him to Ned for justice. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/171 "2011-06-14T06:05:49Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Obviously there are ways to pass through the Wall - the wildlings that attacked Bran came from the north and managed to avoid capture. I’m a non-book-reader, but I came across the tidbit that Wildlings sail across the sea at the ends of the Wall ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/172 "2011-06-14T06:36:28Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > If the wall is several hundred miles long, then Winterfell is almost a thousand miles to the South. [Check](http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/locations/castle-black/) the map at HBO Viewer’s Guide. > > The forts may be abandoned but the nearby passages through the Wall would remain gated. Else there’s no point to the Wall. The initial expedition of three would have been stationed at one of the manned forts and dispatched from there. They would have transgressed the Wall at a nearby opening (remember the gate was manually raised open) and the survivor likely would have returned the same way. At that point, his assigned base would be at most a few hundred feet away, and Winterfell and its vicinity a thousand miles. Across the handy Game of Throne wiki, I came across, the Wall is 300 miles long. This would still put Winterfell quite a ways from it based on the map. The map made be not really drawn to scale though. Westeros is supposed to be the size of South America, so I guess that can give you a perception. I dunno the answer as to how the deserter got as far as did. Maybe they didn’t notice he was missing for a few days and he managed to get reasonably far south before they realized he was gone and caught up to him. I’d have to watch the 1st episode again to see if its explained better. The spoiler tagged about the Wildlings may explain how they managed to get past the wall. That clearly doesn’t seem to be the method used by the deserter. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/173 "2011-06-14T06:51:50Z")
I don’t recall anything in the books that match up with that spoiler, but maybe others will remember more. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/174 "2011-06-14T06:54:50Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Across the handy Game of Throne wiki, I came across, the Wall is 300 miles long. This would still put Winterfell quite a ways from it based on the map. The map made be not really drawn to scale though. Westeros is supposed to be the size of South America, so I guess that can give you a perception. > > I dunno the answer as to how the deserter got as far as did. Maybe they didn’t notice he was missing for a few days and he managed to get reasonably far south before they realized he was gone and caught up to him. > > I’d have to watch the 1st episode again to see if its explained better. The spoiler tagged about the Wildlings may explain how they managed to get past the wall. That clearly doesn’t seem to be the method used by the deserter. Watched the first part again. First, wherever they caught him, it seems to be a distance from the Wall based on topography and climate. Second, the deserter said he didn’t go back to the Wall and worn anyone. So it would seem he didn’t go through the Wall at the Castle Black gate. I dunno. Fair question. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/175 "2011-06-14T08:21:14Z")
I haven’t read the books, but it was clear to me by the second episode that Ned was going to die. He was too honorable. Among the other characters, he stuck out like a sore thumb. He was foil, for the most part, to the deceptive and dishonorable behavior of the other characters, and his death, I figured, would end up being something of a statement of intent for the series. It came together almost exactly like I was expecting it to. Ned acts honorably in nearly every scene he’s in; most of the other characters act opposite; Ned dies trying to do something honorable, and the viewers’ attentions are drawn more directly to the cut-throat nature of the series. I didn’t see Joffrey ordering his execution, but it makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/176 "2011-06-14T11:49:07Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Watched the first part again. First, wherever they caught him, it seems to be a distance from the Wall based on topography and climate. Second, the deserter said he didn’t go back to the Wall and worn anyone. So it would seem he didn’t go through the Wall at the Castle Black gate. > > I dunno. Fair question. Looking at the map on the HBO’s viewer guide, there seems to be a good stretch to the west of the wall where it doesn’t reach. I presume that this is due to the mountain range on the map, which I suppose would be impassable for any larger force. The dire wolves and Wildlings may perhaps have taken this route? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/177 "2011-06-14T12:08:26Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > That really was difficult to watch, Myself and many people are upset about the death of Ned Stark, now I understand it’s a series based on books but a few people made good points. In the True Blood series many people who died in the books were saved on the show. This was truly painful it was like as someone also said if they had killed off Tony Soprano in season one or if the had gone through with the idea to kill off Jack Sheppard on LOST in the 1st episode? People relate with certain characters and Ned was one of those.As a father it really pained me to watch even though it’s a show, but I myself have 2 daughters and I honestly felt as if this were a real person and I knew him, he was a man who was forced to lie with the hope that he may see his family again only to be murdered by the cowardly little bastard Joffrey, now again I know it’s just a story but, it truly killed the show for me and I know a ton of people are honestly upset with HBO you made us fall in love with a character only to kill him off too soon. I think it was a terrible mistake and should have been thought through some heroes shouldn’t have to die… Ned Stark was one of those. So–you joined SDMB just to tell us this? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/178 "2011-06-14T12:28:51Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > He wasn’t executed for cowardice, he was executed for breaking a sacred vow (literally - taken in a sept, or a godswood)…the only way out of the Night’s Watch once you’ve taken your vow is death - either you die at the hands of a Wildling (or Other), you die of old age at your post, or you desert, and get executed by the first man of authority who gets his hands on you. I distinctly remember his superior officer threatening to have him killed for cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/179 "2011-06-14T12:31:49Z")
> [@Cameleon01](#): > > That really was difficult to watch, Myself and many people are upset about the death of Ned Stark, now I understand it’s a series based on books but a few people made good points. > \ Are you also one of those people that had a “religious experience” when you saw Avatar? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243/180 "2011-06-14T12:33:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I distinctly remember his superior officer threatening to have him killed for cowardice. That would be not following an order. Desertion would be a whole different ball of justice. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-baelor-6-12-11/585243.md?page=10)