# Game of Thrones dragon question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 14, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632 "2017-08-14T13:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/1 "2017-08-14T13:56:19Z")
Has the show (or the books, for that matter) ever addressed the fact that Dany’s dragons _aren’t_. Dragons, that is. They are wyverns. Dragons have 4 legs. We know that Westeros has the concept because a dragon (or a representation of one) is in the opening credits. Sure, they’re big, scaly flying things that breathe fire. But they aren’t **dragons**! Or have I just not been paying attention for the last 10 years and this is something that was addressed in Season 1, Episode 2 or such? Wouldn’t be the first time… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/2 "2017-08-14T14:04:28Z")
I don’t think wyverns breathe fire, at least from my DnD memories. If you saw a big scaly beast flying around and breathing fire, I think you’d probably call it a dragon no matter how many legs it had. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/3 "2017-08-14T14:08:42Z")
If a giant fire-breathing creature wants me to call it a dragon, I’m calling it a dragon. Plus remember this is not set on Earth. So earthly terminology need necessarily not apply. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/4 "2017-08-14T14:36:35Z")
The word “Wyvern” is a ‘modern’ invention, not attested before the seventeenth century (source Wikipedia and M-W) so I find, Martin’s or the showrunners’ choice of the older all inclusive meaning of dragon a more natural representation of the … Just kidding, except for the initial fact. Are they described in the books as four legged or four limbed? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/5 "2017-08-14T14:38:45Z")
I don’t remember. But what bugs me is the four-legged, two-winged beastie in the opening credits. If all the flying, scaly things on the show have only two legs, then why couldn’t the Art Department get it right for the credits? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/6 "2017-08-14T14:50:54Z")
In the books [House Vyrwel of Darkdel](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Vyrwel) has a wyvern as its sigil and there is a place called Wyvern Point in distant Sothoryos so the concept exists in the universe. [According to GRRM](http://grrm.livejournal.com/327410.html) the difference between them is that wyverns don’t breath fire. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/7 "2017-08-14T18:42:56Z")
For what it’s worth, in D&D, there are two separate creatures called “wyvern” and “dragon” (well, actually more than two, since there are different kinds of dragon, too), but the creature type of wyverns is still “dragon”. The four-legs-and-two-wings sort with a breath weapon are sometimes called “true dragons”, to distinguish them from the lesser dragons like wyverns. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/8 "2017-08-14T18:57:51Z")
> [@naita](#): > > The word “Wyvern” is a ‘modern’ invention, not attested before the seventeenth century (source Wikipedia and M-W) so I find, Martin’s or the showrunners’ choice of the older all inclusive meaning of dragon a more natural representation of the … > > Just kidding, except for the initial fact. > > Are they described in the books as four legged or four limbed? GRRM has made clear his dragons are of the more biologically-plausible variety (i.e. two legs and two wings, just like all modern flying vertebrates). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/9 "2017-08-14T18:58:50Z")
Maester: “Your Grace, the Citadel regrets to inform you that your so-called dragons are in fact wyverns, therefore invalidating your claim to the Iron Throne.” Daenyris: “Dracaris” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/10 "2017-08-14T20:05:19Z")
Sometimes I don’t know whether I’m proud or ashamed at how pendantic this place is. I think I’ll go with “ashroud”. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/11 "2017-08-14T20:50:27Z")
The worst thing for me about the whole thing is that the dragons of Skyrim aren’t either. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/12 "2017-08-14T21:11:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I don’t remember. But what bugs me is the four-legged, two-winged beastie in the opening credits. If all the flying, scaly things on the show have only two legs, then why couldn’t the Art Department get it right for the credits? I haven’t read the books, but I’ve read wiki articles based on the books. 🙂 And I believe one of them said, “Dragons have two legs, but because it had been centuries since any were seen, people had forgotten what they looked like and sometimes drew them with four legs.” So maybe the opening credits are a realistic depiction of how the average person of Westeros would ignorantly depict a dragon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/13 "2017-08-14T23:29:33Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > In the books [House Vyrwel of Darkdel](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Vyrwel) has a wyvern as its sigil and there is a place called Wyvern Point in distant Sothoryos so the concept exists in the universe. [According to GRRM](http://grrm.livejournal.com/327410.html) the difference between them is that wyverns don’t breath fire. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > GRRM has made clear his dragons are of the more biologically-plausible variety (i.e. two legs and two wings, just like all modern flying vertebrates). Scroll down to the comments section of this link. GRRM says: "According to the rules of heraldry, dragons have four legs and wyverns two, yes. But have you ever seen a heraldic “seahorse?” Heralds didn’t know crap about biology. Now, there are no actual dragons, to be sure. But there are bats, and there are birds, and once upon a time there were pterodactyls. Those are the models to use when designing a dragon. No beast in nature has four legs AND wings. Besides, the best dragon ever shown on film, Vermithrax Perjorative, has two legs and two wings. My dragons have two legs." ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/14 "2017-08-14T23:36:07Z")
Hah! I’ve been saying for many years, that is the best “dragon” I’ve ever seen on film. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/15 "2017-08-14T23:39:13Z")
There are, in fact, [beasts in nature with four legs and two wings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draco_(genus)). They’re even reptiles. They don’t actually fly, only glide, but they’re a heck of a lot closer to flying than they are to breathing fire. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-dragon-question/793632/16 "2017-08-15T00:46:02Z")
I don’t think the characters are speaking English in the first place.