# Game of Thrones, Fire and Blood, 6/19/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068 "2011-06-19T21:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/81 "2011-06-20T18:19:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think that the story in general also shows the inherent instability, inequality and often brutality of monarchal systems in general. “Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/82 "2011-06-20T18:19:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The direwolves were kept off screen because it was hard to make them do what was needed, no such problem with CGI. Now it is just a monetary concern. So we can look forward to _not_ seeing both cool dragons and big armies next season. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/83 "2011-06-20T18:25:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > So we can look forward to _not_ seeing both cool dragons and big armies next season. :smack: Yeah, pretty much :(. I loved how they went from the scene of Maester Pycelle recounting how Aerys Targaryen started off nice and charming until he went mad and started burning people, then cut to the nice and charming Daenerys Targaryen burning someone. ---
**Author:** ![Keweenaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Keweenaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keweenaw)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/84 "2011-06-20T18:32:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I nearly stood up and cheered for old Pycell getting his hollies with Roz. And Roz, damn, I never get tired of seeing her naked. Am I the only one who thought that was Sansa at first? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/85 "2011-06-20T18:33:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It gives us more of the moral complexity and ambiguity of the story. So much of of what is or is not moral depends on perspective. From one perspective, Drogo and Dany were a badass power-couple, from another perspective, they’re monsters. Oh, I totally agree, which is why I wanted to see more seething from Mirri. She hated Drogo, with good reason. Drogo deserved what he got, and Dany was foolish to trust her. I didn’t expect screaming or anything, but a little “take _that_, motherfucker!” in her delivery would have been nice. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/86 "2011-06-20T18:34:42Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > So we can look forward to _not_ seeing both cool dragons and big armies next season. :smack: I imagine making the first season of show is more expensive then the second, since they now have most of the sets, costumes, design work, etc. finished, so hopefully they’ll have some money for at least one or two battles in future seasons. Given that the series takes place during a civil war, its a little hard to see how they can keep them all off screen, there’s only so many times poor Tyrion can get knocked out just before the arrows fly. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/87 "2011-06-20T18:39:49Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > So we can look forward to _not_ seeing both cool dragons and big armies next season. :smack: I vote for cool dragons. And good actors. (Call in The Dog Whisperer to make the “dire wolves” better at taking direction.) For me, there’s exactly one (1) battle in the rest of the whole series of books that’s worth detailed screen time. Otherwise, I’ll let somebody describe the mass slaughters. The occasional small fight is more interesting & keeps the violence quotient acceptably high. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/88 "2011-06-20T18:50:16Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > Am I the only one who thought that was Sansa at first? I thought so too. I was so confused by that scene at first. I didn’t even get that the old man was faking being frail until I read it here. That scene just seemed a bit pointless to me. Loved the rest of it though. I don’t know if I should read the books or wait until next year to see what happens next! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/89 "2011-06-20T18:52:32Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > Am I the only one who thought that was Sansa at first? Nope, although I missed the first part of the scene the first time I watched the episode. (The series really benefits from watching each episode twice.) Just seeing the second half, where she’s dressed, though, they really do look a lot alike. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/90 "2011-06-20T18:57:52Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > Am I the only one who thought that was Sansa at first? > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I thought so too. I was so confused by that scene at first. I didn’t even get that the old man was faking being frail until I read it here. That scene just seemed a bit pointless to me. Loved the rest of it though. I don’t know if I should read the books or wait until next year to see what happens next! I thought it was her, too. But I did pick up on the faking when he got dressed, stood up tall, but stooped before opening the door. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/91 "2011-06-20T19:05:14Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I thought so too. I was so confused by that scene at first. I didn’t even get that the old man was faking being frail until I read it here. That scene just seemed a bit pointless to me. Loved the rest of it though. I don’t know if I should read the books or wait until next year to see what happens next! I didn’t love the Maester/Hoor scene much but realized that he wasn’t just faking being frail–he was faking being a senile idiot. His blabbing about how Joff had the makings of a good king was for the benefit of Littlefinger’s “employee” & anybody else who might overhear. It’s obviously dangerous to get on the little maniac’s bad side… Reading the books? That’s up to you! (I plowed through all of them within the last year & liked the show a lot. And there’s still stuff in the books they had to leave out.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/92 "2011-06-20T19:31:09Z")
Does anyone remember the description of the baby that Dany miscarried? I thought it was described as having scales and so forth, and I was wondering if she somehow was carrying a dragon? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/93 "2011-06-20T19:40:55Z")
It was described as scaled with bat like wings and a tail, also it was born already rotten and full of maggots. I think the blood magic was responsible more than anything, Dany wasn’t going to birth an undead dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/94 "2011-06-20T19:42:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Does anyone remember the description of the baby that Dany miscarried? I thought it was described as having scales and so forth, and I was wondering if she somehow was carrying a dragon? She said it had bat-like wings and scales, which sounded very dragony. But she also said the skin came off when touched and it’s belly was full of worms-- not very dragony to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/95 "2011-06-20T19:55:17Z")
Though the baby was never actually seen by Dany, so it could have been the godswife screwing with her. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/96 "2011-06-20T19:57:33Z")
I got the impression that Jorah did see him, though, so he’d have said something if she had been lying. (At least about the being born decayed part.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/97 "2011-06-20T19:58:37Z")
Yeah, if it was just the witch there would have been no reason at all to believe her. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/98 "2011-06-20T20:01:05Z")
No spoilers, but next season is going to be VERY expensive to film with dragon CGIs and some major battles. And here’s hoping they’ll up the he-nudity. We got Lancel’s butt last night but he looks 12; c’mon HBO, this is what you’re there for, strip Robb and Jon and Jamie and others. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/99 "2011-06-20T20:07:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > No spoilers, but next season is going to be VERY expensive to film with dragon CGIs and some major battles. > > And here’s hoping they’ll up the he-nudity. We got Lancel’s butt last night but he looks 12; c’mon HBO, this is what you’re there for, strip Robb and Jon and Jamie and others. Hey, now…we got Hodor junk right in the face a few eps ago! Don’t get greedy… ---
**Author:** ![TPWombat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbce88/32.png) [@TPWombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TPWombat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/100 "2011-06-20T21:23:53Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Anyone else remember the actor playing Tywin Lannister as the bad guy from both Last Action Hero and The Golden Child? Also The Patrician in [Going Postal.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1219817/combined) 🙂 Tho’ more neutral than bad, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068.md?page=6)