# Game of Thrones, Fire and Blood, 6/19/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068 "2011-06-19T21:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/101 "2011-06-20T21:25:39Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hey, now…we got Hodor junk right in the face a few eps ago! Don’t get greedy… Two things: 1- Did anybody need to see that? 2- Half giant indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/102 "2011-06-20T21:56:27Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Overall, I loved watching this season, and loved watching the non-book-readers’ reactions to things. Sadly, I don’t know if I can woo my wife back to watching. Drogo and Rhaego’s fate was the last straw for her (or rather, that their fate was a direct result of Dany’s attempt at mercy.) I may be watching next season on my own. > > Can’t wait to see who’s cast in all the new roles for next season; the casting director should get an emmy this season, if an emmy for casting exists. Every single character was spot-on, IMHO. Even Cat, who was not as I pictured, really came into her own in the last few episodes. Yes there is an Emmy for casting, but you probably won’t see it awarded on TV. It’s one of the awards they give out a few days earlier. It’s part of the creative arts Emmys. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/103 "2011-06-20T22:07:43Z")
I’ve read a thing on next season’s cast. [They’ve done some re-casting](http://www.ugo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-adds-director-and-recasts-the-die-again). It also looks like they’re trying to keep it fresh with added directors. About the re-casting: Very upset about one and not really caring about the other. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/104 "2011-06-20T22:13:38Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I’ve read a thing on next season’s cast. [They’ve done some re-casting](http://www.ugo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-adds-director-and-recasts-the-die-again). It also looks like they’re trying to keep it fresh with added directors. > About the re-casting: Very upset about one and not really caring about the other. Eh? That link is from last year and says the current Dany and Cat were brought in after the pilot was shot. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/105 "2011-06-20T22:14:37Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I’ve read a thing on next season’s cast. [They’ve done some re-casting](http://www.ugo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-adds-director-and-recasts-the-die-again). Those are the current actors. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/106 "2011-06-20T22:17:28Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > Those are the current actors. Holy crap, you’re right! I dunno what I was reading. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/107 "2011-06-20T23:30:13Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What i thought was underplayed was Jamies line “Men like me? there are no men like me, there is only me”, it should have dripped arrogance but he said it with a hint of sadness. I agree. Arrogance and defiance, to show that he thinks (or puts on the front that he thinks) he’s a singular creation that Cat cannot understand. That meaning didn’t come through NCW’s delivery at all. Which is interesting because in interviews he comes across as having a very astute read on Jaime and all his layers, so that had to have been a deliberate choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/108 "2011-06-21T00:17:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hey, now…we got Hodor junk right in the face a few eps ago! Don’t get greedy… Just last night we saw Maester Pycelle, jazzercizing in his flimsy nightshirt… ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/109 "2011-06-21T00:20:47Z")
On a non-nudity related note… Arya makes a much more convincing boy with her hair chopped off, for some reason. (Ironic, with Hot Pie’s claim that ‘he looks like a girl’.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/110 "2011-06-21T01:34:29Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Just last night we saw Maester Pycelle, jazzercizing in his flimsy nightshirt… Daenerys’s would-be poisoner also showed his junk when he was tied to the horse. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/111 "2011-06-21T01:36:05Z")
Thank you, **Snarky\_Kong** , for getting the threads going each week. I know they got off to a rough start and I appreciate your patience and persistence. The “what happened last week” recaps were usefull as well. And now I’m off to reread, in the hopes that my library does not have a six-month waiting list for the next of that which cannot be mentioned. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/112 "2011-06-21T01:45:35Z")
I also want to express my appreciation for Snarky’s work on these threads. I would love it if every TV series episode thread were run the way he did it. ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/113 "2011-06-21T02:19:13Z")
Any word on the season two budget? I believe this past season set HBO back roughly 50 million. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/114 "2011-06-21T02:39:53Z")
> [@Keweenaw](#): > > Am I the only one who thought that was Sansa at first? No you are not. I thought to myself “Wow… they actually went \*there!” \*Until she turned around I thought the scene was being set for Sansa to have a virginity test of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/115 "2011-06-21T02:49:51Z")
I think it’s interesting that _Game of Thrones_ and _The Killing_ concluded on the same night. For a while TV geeks have been talking about HBO vs. AMC for crown of the best network out there for original programming. Lately it’s been pretty one sided in AMCs favor since _The Sopranos_ and _The Wire_ finished and a few of the HBO efforts fell flat. Needless to say HBO pretty successfully reclaimed it crown last night. > [@Tengu](#): > > I assume that Maester Name-I-Can’t-Remember (who is on the Small Council, with Littlefinger, Varys, etc) pretends to be feeble so that people will underestimate him, and he can manipulate things without people like Littlefinger and Varys catching on. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Maester Pycelle. He may not be as physically feeble as he pretends, but he did lose his train of thought. As he was prancing about in his nightgown, I kept yelling “keep it on!” His whore’s nakedness & Lancel’s were both pathetic–young people being used by those with power. Dany’s dragon-bedecked nakedness _revealed_ her power. > > Quite an excellent episode. I had read the books after I heard the PR about the series & was not disappointed. I wonder how many book virgins will be tempted during the long months to come? Maester Pycelle’s put-on might be even more symbolic than we’re seeing. Yes, he is obviously not the doddering old fool that he leads people to believe and he’s smart enough to know Roz is probably spying for Littlefinger and is wary of comments about Joffrey, but he also could be duplicitous on a larger level. From the viewers guide: > [@](#): > > Dressed in grey and bedecked in heavy chains, maesters serve as teachers, scientists and healers to the noble houses of the Seven Kingdoms and the Night’s Watch. Maesters hold no familial or political allegiances – they are only known by their title and first name. Once they have completed training at the Citadel, they serve the houses they are assigned to, observe the change of seasons and attend to the ravens. Maesters’ chains are worn at all times, even during sleep, and are indications of areas of knowledge. There are hundreds of different links, and each is made of a different substance, which signifies expertise in a given field of study. Now, maybe I’m reading too far into it, but the Maester is supposedly never supposed remove his chains and I think there’s an implication there that they also are supposed to be chaste like the men of the Nights Watch. So in this scene with the whore Maester Pycelle is doubly violating his vows. This could be just a trivial indulgence of a practical old man of power, but it could also mean that the Maesters are up to more than they claim. Perhaps the Maester’s of the Citadel across Westeros are conspiring in their own rights to pull the puppet strings. Or, in contrast, Maester Pycelle’s violation of the oath could mean that he’s breaking from the neutral and unbaised command of the Citadel and operating on his own outside of it’s control. Could be a small thing, but perhaps they devoted so much time to the scene to reveal that he’s not the fool he seems to foreshadow some future betrayal. Or else it was just a excuse for some exposition and nudity. For the record, I thought that was Cersei there for a while and not Roz. How wild would it have been for Pycelle to be poking the Queen? > [@Taomist](#): > > Can’t answer the questions withoug spoilers, but that is Robert’s bastard being sent to the wall. I did think it was kind of odd that his ‘master got tired of him’, or however he puts it; can’t even remember if he KNOWS he’s Robert’s bastard. I’m going to guess ‘yes’ simply because otherwise I don’t see why he’d go straight to The Wall rather than find work elsewhere. I’m guessing that someone is sending the bastard north to protect him. The blacksmith really seemed not to know who his father is, and I think Littlefinger, Varys and Ned all knew. Maester Pycelle probably knew as well if we assume he’s quite a bit more astute than he lets on. So any one of them could be acting secretly to get the boy out of King’s Landing before the Lannister’s find out about him. Not sure why this boy is particularly important, since they seem to say that Robert Baratheon had tons of bastards, but perhaps this bastard’s mother was more than just some whore and he might actually have something of a claim to true nobility. Of course I could be over-complicating things, and the boy’s boss knows who he is and is just trying to send him away because he’s protecting him the best way he can for nothing more than mercy. Or he was only ever employed there because someone in power asked the blacksmith to employ him and now that Robert’s dead that contract is moot. Presumably the boy is going to have a role going forward, is that just as a good guy who protects and befriends Arya while never having more importance than that of a talented fighter or will his father’s identity become known and will he be a political player once House Baratheon gets cracking? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/116 "2011-06-21T02:50:01Z")
Since the scene is past it won’t be too spoilery to reference the book. In the book IIRC there is the implication the healer-women deliberately manipulated Drogo’s initial treatment for the wound so that his wound would go septic. In the show it’s just focused on the “life for life” black magic she did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/117 "2011-06-21T02:54:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > No you are not. I thought to myself “Wow… they actually went \*there!” \*Until she turned around I thought the scene was being set for Sansa to have a virginity test of some kind. Me, too. That skinny Lanester kid-- was that another brother, or a cousin or nephew. I can’t remember. I’m going to be a bit of a sourpuss here, but I really didn’t think this was all that great. It was good, and I enjoyed it, but I’d give it “B” level, not “A”. Maybe “B+”. There are still just too many damn characters. I’d rather see more screen time with fewer characters. Maybe they could’ve edited down to 3 kingdoms. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/118 "2011-06-21T02:57:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Me, too. That skinny Lanester kid-- was that another brother, or a cousin or nephew. I can’t remember. Lancel is the son of Kevan, who is Tywin’s brother. Thus, he is Tywin’s nephew and Cersei/Jamie/Tyrion’s first cousin. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/119 "2011-06-21T03:04:54Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Dressed in grey and bedecked in heavy chains, maesters serve as teachers, scientists and healers to the noble houses of the Seven Kingdoms and the Night’s Watch. Maesters hold no familial or political allegiances – they are only known by their title and first name. Once they have completed training at the Citadel, they serve the houses they are assigned to, observe the change of seasons and attend to the ravens. Maesters’ chains are worn at all times, even during sleep, and are indications of areas of knowledge. There are hundreds of different links, and each is made of a different substance, which signifies expertise in a given field of study. It’s an interesting philosophical point in the world of the Game of Thrones (book) universe (and this is not an action spoiler in any way) that the GOT world and societies have existed in a quasi-medieval technological state for _thousands_ of years. The flip side is you have this intellectually rigorous school where maesters get their training with libraries full of books that also go back hundreds and hundreds (possibly thousands) of years. They also conduct experiments and have to master tons of different disciplines. And yet practically almost zero scientific or technological progress is made over time. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068/120 "2011-06-21T03:05:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > \Jaime played his scene just right, I thought - he’s been beaten, chained in the cold and then bashed in the head with a rock. As I see it, he knows he’s the most badass knight around, but deep, deep down he’s also filled with self-loathing for his incestuous affair and for being the Kingslayer. \ I think Jaime did the scene right, but for different reasons. [spoiler]The reason I’m quoting and posting is that Jaime feels absolutely no shame or self-loathing for his relationship with his sister; as for being the Kingslayer, he knows damn well that someone had to do what he did, and he chose to do it, knowing the results would be his dishonor if not dismemberment. He is a very proud man, and in his eyes, what he does at any given time is the right thing to do. Except…except for Bran. While there was nothing more than self-preservation in his pushing him off the wall, I do think it did kind of make him doubt himself just a little bit. Doubt his relationship with Cercei, just a little bit. Regardless, he’d have done all of it over again given the same choices. No, I don’t believe he’s less full of himself than before, but…I think he does see that he could be just a little bit…better. He’s played the parts that fate shoved him into, and now he’s starting to think maybe he can start acting instead of reacting. My opinion, anyhoo, though the books completely and 100% support and explain his relationship with Cercei as being nothing to be ashamed of in his eyes. Is it a spoiler to mention the book now that the series is over? Because Jaimie regularly has suggested running off with Cercei and leaving the whole kingdom behind, regularly begged her to ditch her dreams of power and go where no one could say them nay. It was always Cercei holding them back, because wanted power in this world, not unfettered passion in another one.[/spoiler] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-fire-and-blood-6-19-11/586068.md?page=7)