# Game of Thrones: omnibus discussion thread based on knowledge of books (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377 "2011-04-22T17:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/721 "2011-05-16T18:17:09Z")
Is Littlefinger as unabashedly - even boastfully - a whoremaster in the books? I don’t remember that. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/722 "2011-05-16T18:25:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Has Bran genuinely forgotten what happened, or is he keeping his mouth shut to keep people alive? He has no memory when he first wakes from his coma, but bits and pieces come back in dreams, and early in the second book, somebody mentions Stannis’s claim about the Lannister incest, and Bran has a panic attack. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/723 "2011-05-16T18:26:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Is Littlefinger as unabashedly - even boastfully - a whoremaster in the books? I don’t remember that. Yes, he owns brothels, and the line about whores being a better investment than ships – because they rarely sink – is from the book. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/724 "2011-05-16T19:39:33Z")
Enjoyed the episode especially the scene between Robert and Cersei. They have deviated from the books but in a believable way to make both characters more human. It was beautifully acted and quite touching. The scene shows Robert as less stupid than he seems. In the books and the earlier episode, Robert is portrayed as someone who would stupidly meet the Dothraki in open field but the scene shows that he has a coherent reason for not retreating to his castle and an acute awareness of the weaknesses of his kingdom which he understands better than Ned. This in turn helps us understand why he is so obsessed about killing Dany. It also solves a little mystery from the earlier episode in the scene between Cersei and Joffrey. I actually thought that while the latter was completely naive about the practicality of attacking Winterfell, his larger point about having a standing army under the king made some sense. I wondered if he got that idea from Robert and this episode suggests that he did. I continue to be impressed by the writing. I would say that when they deviate from the book they improve on it about four times out of five. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/725 "2011-05-16T19:52:12Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Probably would be hard for the audience to tell what they’re supposed to be if they made them black. I was watching on non-HD (impatience is a non-virtue?) and I couldn’t tell what they were at all. Only reason I could tell was because I remembered the scene from the book. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/726 "2011-05-17T00:14:56Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Ok, I’ll disagree and toss my hat into the ring with those who think Cersei is plain ol’ evil. I do think she loves Jaime, but not nearly as much as he loves her. She certainly doesn’t love him enough to not jump into bed with their cousin instead. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/727 "2011-05-17T00:48:42Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > But Cersai kept Jaime from bonding with Joffrey; she was afraid somebody might catch on. Then she raised him as a sadistic little monster. (Maybe he came up with the sadism on his own, but she did nothing to correct him.) I think it’s safe to say that Joff’s sadism is his own. After all, Tommen and Myrcella turned out decently enough. Although out of the three, Joff seemed to be closest to Cersei, so possibly she encouraged his tendencies. I don’t think Cersei is quite as evil as many believe - there are plenty more flat out evil characters in the series. The Late Lord Frey for one. Yes, your House was insulted, but that doesn’t give you the right to slaughter guests under your roof. Or the Mountain that Rides for another. Cersei and Theon seem very similar to me, in that if they were in different circumstances they might have been much better people. But they are both terrified of seeming weak, and so will do anything they possibly can to show people otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/728 "2011-05-17T00:51:07Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The wolf… hmm. They’re known to be dangerous animals. One just attacked her son. If your child had just been mauled by a pitbull (yeah, they’re not bad, lay off pit lovers), and there was another one there… Well, stupid, overreacting, not nice, etc., but there’s a twinge of understanding. She wasn’t hysterically overreacting to protect her child, though. In that particular scene, she is quite calm and vindictive when she suggests that Lady die in place of Sansa. All she wanted was to humiliate the Starks in order to get back at them for humiliating Joff. If Joff had been at death’s door and Cersei were showing more emotion in that scene, I’d be more sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/729 "2011-05-17T00:58:07Z")
Cersei is a bitch, but I don’t think she approaches the level of pure sociopathy the way a couple of other characters do. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/730 "2011-05-17T01:25:56Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > She certainly doesn’t love him enough to not jump into bed with their cousin instead. One of the reasons she does that is because Lancel looks a lot like Jaime. But yeah, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/731 "2011-05-17T02:51:43Z")
Cersei is also acting under the knowledge of a particular prophecy that seems to continue to keep coming true and that might make her a lot more protective of her brood than a normal person. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/732 "2011-05-17T09:58:04Z")
Now that it has been mentioned in the series as well, I was reminded of my incomprehension while reading the books regarding the fear of a Dothraki invasion of Westeros. Is the reasoning behind this anxiety ever discussed to some extent in ASoIaF? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/733 "2011-05-17T10:17:30Z")
They are not a seafaring people, that is basically all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/734 "2011-05-17T10:56:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They are not a seafaring people, that is basically all there is to it. Precisely, so what justifies such fear? Where are the Dothraki suppossed to get the hundreds and hundreds of transport ships from? Who is going to protect such a vulnerable convoy? How are lines of supply established across the sea? How is all this paid? Why shouldn’t the Westeros’ lords be unable to delay such an endevaour? Why shouldn’t they build a fleet to harass the convoy? And even if the Dothraki somehow managed to cross the sea in full strenght, they still have to land at a convenient spot without being thrown back immediately and even if they were to find a safe haven (Dorne, for instance, but at the point when the Dothraki invasion is discussed, that possibility was unknown to most of the other lords), they had yet to start any conquering .. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/735 "2011-05-17T11:06:57Z")
Sigh, double negatives. You know what I meant to say. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/736 "2011-05-17T12:29:53Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > Now that it has been mentioned in the series as well, I was reminded of my incomprehension while reading the books regarding the fear of a Dothraki invasion of Westeros. > > Is the reasoning behind this anxiety ever discussed to some extent in ASoIaF? Did everybody in the Council really see the invasion as a serious threat? They could have just been humoring Robert’s hatred of everything Targaryen. (For a variety of nefarious reasons, of course.) Concerning Cersei: She’s evil but not the worst of the evil folk we’ve met. (Or are going to meet.) Among the Great Families, I’d give the Evil Award to Walder Frey. Then there’s Gregor Clegane & the various characters who pop up as the Kingdoms dissolve into anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/737 "2011-05-17T12:47:47Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Did everybody in the Council really see the invasion as a serious threat? They could have just been humoring Robert’s hatred of everything Targaryen. (For a variety of nefarious reasons, of course.) Well, it’s a matter of priorities, isn’t it? Kill her now and it’s done. The threat may be a hundred-to-one, but it’s still a threat. Kill her and be sure. What if they DO start building transports? How much will it cost to reinforce the navy (which was devastated by the Iron Men eight years ago) to engage that convoy? All of this is a hell of a lot more expensive than hiring an assassin. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/738 "2011-05-17T12:48:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Did everybody in the Council really see the invasion as a serious threat? They could have just been humoring Robert’s hatred of everything Targaryen. (For a variety of nefarious reasons, of course.) > > Concerning Cersei: She’s evil but not the worst of the evil folk we’ve met. (Or are going to meet.) Among the Great Families, I’d give the Evil Award to Walder Frey. Then there’s Gregor Clegane & the various characters who pop up as the Kingdoms dissolve into anarchy. Well, yeah…I honestly am not sure you get more evil than Former Maester Qyburn…human vivisection, possible sexual torture experiments, Frankensteinian monster-making…Cersei actually becomes much more evil by her patronization of Qyburn than she was ever capable of on her own. ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/739 "2011-05-17T12:53:24Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Did everybody in the Council really see the invasion as a serious threat? They could have just been humoring Robert’s hatred of everything Targaryen. (For a variety of nefarious reasons, of course.) > > Concerning Cersei: She’s evil but not the worst of the evil folk we’ve met. (Or are going to meet.) Among the Great Families, I’d give the Evil Award to Walder Frey. Then there’s Gregor Clegane & the various characters who pop up as the Kingdoms dissolve into anarchy. I’d put all of the Brave Companions high up on the evil list as well. I don’t think getting Hoat’s POV would help me understand why he chops off servants feet. Ramsay Snow/Bolton seems to be as pure evil as they come too. Way worse than Cersei. Although she is a lying whore…She’s been fucking Lancel and Osmond Kettleback and Moon Boy for all I know… As for the small council & the Dothraki. I got the impression that they are more afraid of the eventual return to power of the Targaryens than anything else. It might take 10-20 years before Dany’s child leads 100,000 Dothraki warriors across the Narrow Sea, but it’s still a frightening thought. They fear not only for themselves, but for the future of their society…and their heirs. They don’t want another Mad King…and they don’t want to have to suffer the vengeance of his daughter for overthrowing him. I also get the impression that none of them are afraid of Viserys at all. It’s Dany, her child & the Dothraki they fear. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/740 "2011-05-17T13:10:23Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, yeah…I honestly am not sure you get more evil than Former Maester Qyburn…human vivisection, possible sexual torture experiments, Frankensteinian monster-making…Cersei actually becomes much more evil by her patronization of Qyburn than she was ever capable of on her own. It would be awesomely hilarious of he isn’t bad at all and was actually running some sort of underground railroad to get political prisoners away from Cersei. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=38)