# Game of Thrones: omnibus discussion thread based on knowledge of books (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377 "2011-04-22T17:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1161 "2011-06-17T18:34:30Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I have an interesting theory I would like to trot out for the board’s amusement. We are told that three Targaryens, a brother and two sisters IIRC, came over on dragons and conquered Westeros. What if Danys needs three riders for her dragons to invade Westeros this time? She makes one rider, Jon Snow makes another (assuming the theories about Rhaeger and Lyanna are correct), but who is the third? If a third rider is needed, the best candidate that I see is Varys. We know he’s been helping the Targaryens behind the scenes. In one of the books Tywin Lannister makes the comment that all the trouble started when Varys joined the council. I thought at first that Tywin just doesn’t like eunuchs, but what if Tywin was correct and that marked the beginning of Varys’ intrigues? We know very little of Varys’ past and he could be a Targaryen distant, poor relative or a bastard. He was castrated while the Tangaryan’s were in power, and it seems unlikely that the Targaryen’s would allow one of their number to be castrated. Plus, while we’ve heard several different stories of Vary’s origins, they all seem to agree that he’s not a Westros native. Tyrion makes a little more sense (his inclusion would also mean that all three dragonriders had mothers that died in childbirth), but the dates don’t work well. Tywin stayed as the Kings Hand several years after Tyrion was born, which seems unlikely if the king had raped his wife. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1162 "2011-06-17T18:53:45Z")
jayjay, Simplicio: I hadn’t thought about Tyrion. However, what if the Mad King seduced Joanna Lannister rather than raping her? That might explain why Tywin didn’t resign at first. ---
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1163 "2011-06-17T19:06:16Z")
I think we should be careful when using the analogy to Aegon the Conquerer and his sisters to draw conclusions about the three heads of the dragon from the prophecy. If Jon is indeed Rhaegar and Lyanna’s son, then that makes him Dany’s nephew, so there’s already a difference to a degree. I also think that Tyrion is a good candidate for the third head, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he has to be a Targaryen. Having said that, we don’t really know much about Tyrion’s mother, only that she is Stafford Lannister’s sister and Tywin’s cousin. It’s possible, though I think not very likely, that she is related to the Targaryens somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1164 "2011-06-17T19:48:41Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I am a huge fan of these books even though I don’t enjoy fantasy much in general. I am, however, a big fan of medieval history. > > As I read the books I tend to equate the fictional locations with areas of Europe and I was wondering if I’m the only one that does this. Winterfell and the Starks are definintely English and Casterly Rock and the Lannisters are French. The Twins are German. Highgarden, with all it’s bounty, is someplace lush and Mediterranean and I see The Vale as Eastern European…maybe Bulgarian or Transylvanian, even and Dorne is Spanish or maybe even Turkish. I see the Iron Islands as the cold wet Northern English Isles. > > The lands on the other side of the narrow sea are Asian/Arabian in nature, to me at least and I think it is obvious. > . I don’t see it that way myself. Westeros as a whole is basically England writ large, except for the North, with the Scottish Lowlands; the Mountains of the Moon, which are Wales; Highgarden, which has a bit of France to it; and Dorne, which is sort of Spain. The lands past the Wall are the Scottish Highlands, while the Iron Islands are the Orkneys, the Isle of Man et al. Across the narrow Sea, what we’ve seen of the Free Cities is essentially Italian, with Braavos clearly being Renaissance Venice at its height. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1165 "2011-06-17T20:51:20Z")
And King’s Landing during the riots is Vancouver. ---
**Author:** ![JCorre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3da27b/32.png) [@JCorre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JCorre)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1166 "2011-06-18T01:23:42Z")
I just discovered this series in early May. I’m finishing up FoC tonight and I think these books are fantastic. Are his other novels any good? Can anyone recommend other books/authors that are similar? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1167 "2011-06-18T02:28:21Z")
> [@JCorre](#): > > I just discovered this series in early May. I’m finishing up FoC tonight and I think these books are fantastic. Are his other novels any good? > > Can anyone recommend other books/authors that are similar? > > Thanks! All of Martin’s stuff is very good, but most of it is very different. High fantasy like this was sort of a departure for him. He did early urban fantasy and sci-fi before. I think of him most for the Wild Cards series of mosaic novels that he edited and contributed to, but those are probably not close to the best of his earlier work. It all comes in and out of print fairly rapidly so I am not quite sure what to recommend, but I haven’t read anything of Martin’s that I haven’t liked. If you find something grab it. As for something else sort of like this, try the Malazan series by Stephen Erickson. The first book is Gardens of the Moon. It is also a very mature realistic take on traditional high fantasy ideas. Not really the same thing but with a similar flavor. The fan bases overlap significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1168 "2011-06-18T02:36:51Z")
> [@JCorre](#): > > I just discovered this series in early May. I’m finishing up FoC tonight and I think these books are fantastic. Are his other novels any good?.. Oh, definitely. _Fevre Dream_ is a terrific vampire novel, set along the Miss. River before the Civil War. _Tuf Voyaging_ is a great collection of sf short stories - a satire, with ecology, overpopulation and the corrupting effect of power as big themes. One of my favorite sf books ever. _Dying of the Light_ is set in the distant future, on a world which is drifting away from its star. The short story collection _Sandkings_ is also quite good, esp. the title story (which won a ton of awards), and “The Way of Cross and Dragon.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1169 "2011-06-18T07:17:40Z")
Or just buy _Dreamsongs_, a two-volume collection of his best short fiction. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1170 "2011-06-19T14:15:11Z")
So apparently there is a minor character who is supposed to die this season that didn’t die until book three, it hasn’t happened so far so it has to be in this episode. Any guesses? the lady who played old nan died so she is the most likely candidate, but she could easily simply be written out without any issues and a death at Winterfell would be out of place at this point. I don’t remember if Hoster Tully makes it all the way to book 3, but he is a good candidate for early death. Someone at the IMDB boards said it might be the Smalljohn since they haven’t introduced the Karstarks at all they may just replace their part with the Umbers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1171 "2011-06-19T16:34:31Z")
> [@JCorre](#): > > I just discovered this series in early May. I’m finishing up FoC tonight and I think these books are fantastic. Are his other novels any good? > > Can anyone recommend other books/authors that are similar? > > Thanks! He used to do horror before he switched to fiction, and some of it is pretty good. A couple I’ve liked are _Fevre Dream_ (vampires on a 19th century Mississippi riverboat, and _The Armageddon Rag_, which is about a legendary 60’s hard rock band that reunites years after the death of their iconic, Jim Morrison-esque lead singer behind a new frontman, a young kid who is eerily remiscent if the first singer. It’s got a supernatural theme to it, but it’s also just kind of a cool book about rock, and the band (which is called the Nazgul) uses a lot of LOTR imagery. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1172 "2011-06-19T17:46:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > So apparently there is a minor character who is supposed to die this season that didn’t die until book three, it hasn’t happened so far so it has to be in this episode. Any guesses? the lady who played old nan died so she is the most likely candidate, but she could easily simply be written out without any issues and a death at Winterfell would be out of place at this point. I don’t remember if Hoster Tully makes it all the way to book 3, but he is a good candidate for early death. Someone at the IMDB boards said it might be the Smalljohn since they haven’t introduced the Karstarks at all they may just replace their part with the Umbers. Old Nan is not a confirmed death in the books, so I don’t think it’s her. Hoster Tully seems the most likely to me. There is some speculation that Rickard Karstark (he’s been cast) attempts to kill Jaime in this episode. The preview shows Robb chopping down on something. I suppose that could be Karstak’s execution. I really hope it isn’t. I really hope it’s not Jaime being behanded either. Most of the previews have been misleading though, so hopefully this is the same. So I don’t have any good speculation. I thought it was going to be Rast, but he’s out of danger for now. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1173 "2011-06-19T18:06:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He used to do horror before he switched to fiction, and some of it is pretty good. Actually, Martin never really locked in on to one single genre, which is probably why it took him so long to become a household name. For most of his carreer varied betweenscience fiction, fantasy, horror, even superhero stories, and various subgenres of the above. I’d say that until the mid-1980’s, he was mostly known for his science fiction, much of which (like _Tuff Voyaging_, _Dying of the Light_, a _Song for Lysa_, \*Nightflyers \*and more) was set in the same futuristic universe. He’s very much of the same generation as Roger Zelazny (a friend of his), Ursula K. LeGuin, Robert Silverberg and Jack Vance - writers who more or less ignored the supposed lines between the various genres of imaginative fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1174 "2011-06-19T18:46:38Z")
I wonder if Martin gets a little annoyed or disappointed that it took this series for him to be noticed on a large scale. Is this series that much better than his previous writings, or is it just that it’s a longer story arc? I wonder what HE thinks of this piece of work, whether he thinks it’s his best or not. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1175 "2011-06-19T18:51:59Z")
Does anyone know if there were any production stills leaked that show what the dragons are going to look like tonight? CGI or animatronics or puppetry? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1176 "2011-06-19T19:51:34Z")
My guess for the death is Rast at the Wall. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1177 "2011-06-19T19:57:39Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > Is this series that much better than his previous writings, or is it just that it’s a longer story arc? It’s not better, but it is more epic in scope. It also was somewhat revolutionary at the time that the first book came out and got a lot of attention for being such a breath of fresh air in a genre that had been stagnant for a long time. But he wasn’t exactly an obscure writer before A Song of Ice and Fire, he was just a writer who was mostly known only to scifi/fantasy folks. Before the HBO series was announced I would say that was more or less still true. I grew up knowing his name since my Dad was a big fan, so that might bias my perspective a bit. It’s one of the reasons why I associate him so strongly with the Wild Cards series, which is a series of shared universe short stories that he co-created, edited and contributed to as a writer. It’s kind of a superhero world that tried to treat superheros realistically long before that became the vogue in comic books. Really strong stuff for the first several volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1178 "2011-06-19T19:58:23Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > My guess for the death is Rast at the Wall. How though? The only thing that’s left in that storyline is Jon running away, coming back, then Mormont saying they’re going north. There’s no danger for the Wall between Othor and book 2. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1179 "2011-06-19T23:49:44Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How though? The only thing that’s left in that storyline is Jon running away, coming back, then Mormont saying they’re going north. There’s no danger for the Wall between Othor and book 2. The only thing that leads me to believe this is the fact that the camera focused on Rast when Jon got Longclaw. That seemed purposeful. But I don’t know how they’d kill him. My husband thinks Karstark, but it would be weird to introduce him and kill him in one episode. And I don’t think Hoster Tully has been cast, but at least one scene on his deathbed should be shown, so we can get that Lysa backstory. Who else dies in 3? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1180 "2011-06-19T23:57:00Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > The only thing that leads me to believe this is the fact that the camera focused on Rast when Jon got Longclaw. That seemed purposeful. But I don’t know how they’d kill him. My husband thinks Karstark, but it would be weird to introduce him and kill him in one episode. And I don’t think Hoster Tully has been cast, but at least one scene on his deathbed should be shown, so we can get that Lysa backstory. Who else dies in 3? Robb, Catelyn, Tywin, Joffrey, Oberyn (although we haven’t been introduced), Gregor (or was he still screaming in AFFC?), Jeor Mormont… Berric Dondarion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=60)