# Game of Thrones: omnibus discussion thread based on knowledge of books (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377 "2011-04-22T17:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1201 "2011-06-24T13:45:04Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Could this be referring to Marillion? Did the rumor say “die” or something more vague like “meet his fate.” In the show, the unnamed bard who loses his tongue at Joffrey’s command is replaced by Marillion, or at least, the same actor plays both bards. I don’t think they ever refer to him by name. Huh, now that you mention it, I thought that bard looked familiar. If it is indeed supposed to be Marillion, then I wonder how they’ll actually resolve his part in the books. Not that his part is irreplaceable or anything, just wondering who instead would be taking the fall, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![OnlyHuman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@OnlyHuman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnlyHuman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1202 "2011-06-24T14:42:03Z")
ok, I am new to this thread and also new to GRRM’s world. I did read the four books about a year ago, loved the TV series, but still consider myself a newb. I am only now starting to realize how LITTLE I knew about things that happened before GoT takes place and how MUCH detail was put into all this story beforehand. I plan on reading the ‘Egg and Dunk’ adventures, and this fever dream thing. After reading the fever dream and egg and dunk stories is there anything else I am missing reading in this world? Am I correct in saying that there is a story called fever dream? And lastly, I am only up to page 8 of this thread but really wanted to give an opinion on the ‘song of ice and fire’ and what it might mean. You guys are describing it as Jon or Dany’s song or what have you. My interpretation is that all of this shit that is going on in the 7 kingdoms (the wars and fights for the throne) are all REALLY secondary once the frozen creatures from from the north start attacking. In this same vein I start thinking that they are the ‘Ice’ in the song. You guys are writing Melisandre off like she will be dead soonish, which is fine, she might be, however her god will live on and might play a huge role in fighting off the skraelings (I think that name is from a different book, the ice creatures). After all her god represents fire right? Jon kills one with fire, wouldn’t a god of fire be quite an asset in fighting these things? Hence, the god represents 'fire. Yes, there is all this political intrigue and discord, and we care about characters and what family comes out on top, maybe dragons might have something to do with that, but in the end, this is a story about how the kingdom we have grown to love SURVIVE after an onslaught of crazy ass creatures…the song of ice and fire. I dunno, my 2 cents, go ahead and rip me apart. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1203 "2011-06-24T15:02:40Z")
> [@OnlyHuman](#): > > After reading the fever dream and egg and dunk stories is there anything else I am missing reading in this world? Am I correct in saying that there is a story called fever dream? [Fevre Dream](http://www.amazon.com/Fevre-Dream-George-R-R-Martin/dp/0553383051/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308927227&sr=8-1) does NOT belong to A Song of Ice and Fire. It is a separate novel set in the U.S. during the heydays of steamboats. Oh, and vampires. Great read. > [@OnlyHuman](#): > > You guys are writing Melisandre off like she will be dead soonish, which is fine, she might be, however her god will live on and might play a huge role in fighting off the skraelings (I think that name is from a different book, the ice creatures). After all her god represents fire right? Jon kills one with fire, wouldn’t a god of fire be quite an asset in fighting these things? Hence, the god represents 'fire. Except we are not led to believe that there actually are gods in this world. What we do have is magic which could be seen as special energy that screws with normal physics. There is no need to posit all-powerful gods. Humans can only see that there is magical effects that they then believe are caused by gods. The stronger link with fire is dragons, not R’hllor that may or may not exist. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1204 "2011-06-24T16:17:49Z")
And even if there ARE gods in Westeros’s world, and even if one of those gods is actually named R’hllor and his attribute and portfolio IS fire, we don’t know that Melisandre is actually his priestess. Maester Aemon says the fire on the sword is illusion, and the OTHER priest of R’hllor we see, Thoros of Myr, has a pretty different take on the god. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1205 "2011-06-24T16:32:00Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > [Fevre Dream](http://www.amazon.com/Fevre-Dream-George-R-R-Martin/dp/0553383051/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308927227&sr=8-1) does NOT belong to A Song of Ice and Fire. It is a separate novel set in the U.S. during the heydays of steamboats. Oh, and vampires. Great read. Seconded. It’s worth reading, so go get it anyway. But don’t expect it to have anything to do with this. Also check out \*Armageddon Rag \* for another non A Song of Ice And Fire book that is really good. And if it is still in print check out the retrospective of his short stories _Dreamsongs_. The problem with GRRM is his stuff goes out of print a lot. But with the TV show I am hoping they will start reissuing some of it so it is easier to find. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1206 "2011-06-24T16:51:58Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The problem with GRRM is his stuff goes out of print a lot. But with the TV show I am hoping they will start reissuing some of it so it is easier to find. In the old days, you could buy directly from George. I don’t know if he’d hit hard times or if he just wanted to serve his fans, but that’s how I got my copy of the _Sandkings_ collection. Tattered paperback, but I only paid $7 and he signed it for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1207 "2011-06-24T18:20:16Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > …The problem with GRRM is his stuff goes out of print a lot. But with the TV show I am hoping they will start reissuing some of it so it is easier to find. And maybe somebody will say “Hey, he wrote a vampire book! Why don’t we film it?” ---
**Author:** ![OnlyHuman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@OnlyHuman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnlyHuman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1208 "2011-06-24T19:12:15Z")
Someone a lot earlier in the thread was talking about information we were getting from the past being from a ‘fever dream’, when did this take place and who was having the dream, I can’t recall. It was about the Tower of Joy situation. After I heard fever dream and realized I was not sure what the post was talking about I assumed it was in another read somewhere else, hence my thinking ‘fever dream’ was a book which it is but not what they were talking about, LOL. Meh, you guys are right about the Melisandre stuff I guess. Like I said, it was a thought and there is still much to learn in this world even after reading the books one time. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1209 "2011-06-24T19:19:03Z")
Ned was having the fever dream while in the dungeon because of his bad leg. ---
**Author:** ![OnlyHuman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@OnlyHuman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnlyHuman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1210 "2011-06-24T19:24:03Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ned was having the fever dream while in the dungeon because of his bad leg. Thank you, I kind of thought that was the case. At the beginning of such an epic series it is easy to forget such small things about the past, especially when it’s about characters you have never met! Guess this just means I have to read them all over again! ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1211 "2011-06-24T23:32:26Z")
I second (or third) _Dreamsongs_. The copy I’ve got has both volumes in one so it weighs in at a fairly hefty 1185 pages. In that you not only get short stories from throughout Martin’s 40 odd year career but also what amounts to his autobiography as a writer. The stories are a bit uneven, but the best of them are excellent and even the less good are usually entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1212 "2011-06-25T21:06:26Z")
Having just gotten to the point where Arstan Whitebeard (or (B)Ar(ri)stan the (B)Old…how did I not see that the first time, anyway?) appears in my re-read, I wonder how they’re going to manage the reveal on that. As has been said, TV is a visual medium, which means all the little tricks to keep someone’s real identity you can do in print don’t work. I have to admit, I missed ALL the clues my first read-through on this, and the reveal was really kind of awesome. I can’t figure out how they’re going to manage it on film. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1213 "2011-06-25T21:25:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Having just gotten to the point where Arstan Whitebeard (or (B)Ar(ri)stan the (B)Old…how did I not see that the first time, anyway?) appears in my re-read, I wonder how they’re going to manage the reveal on that. As has been said, TV is a visual medium, which means all the little tricks to keep someone’s real identity you can do in print don’t work. I have to admit, I missed ALL the clues my first read-through on this, and the reveal was really kind of awesome. I can’t figure out how they’re going to manage it on film. My guess: the same way they hid the identities of Varys and Illyrio when Arya overheard them in the dungeon - they won’t even try. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1214 "2011-06-25T21:31:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Having just gotten to the point where Arstan Whitebeard (or (B)Ar(ri)stan the (B)Old…how did I not see that the first time, anyway?) appears in my re-read, I wonder how they’re going to manage the reveal on that. As has been said, TV is a visual medium, which means all the little tricks to keep someone’s real identity you can do in print don’t work. I have to admit, I missed ALL the clues my first read-through on this, and the reveal was really kind of awesome. I can’t figure out how they’re going to manage it on film. With long hair and a beard, but other than that, like **Alessan** says, they won’t really try to hide it from the viewers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1215 "2011-06-25T21:34:20Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And even if there ARE gods in Westeros’s world, and even if one of those gods is actually named R’hllor and his attribute and portfolio IS fire, we don’t know that Melisandre is actually his priestess. Maester Aemon says the fire on the sword is illusion, and the OTHER priest of R’hllor we see, Thoros of Myr, has a pretty different take on the god. The way I see ITT, there are three elemental forces in the world, which may or may not by guided by some sort of divine consciousnesses. The first two areright there in the title: there’s fire, which is represented by the dragons and the priests of the Red God; and there’s ice, which is represented by the Others and whatever else is beyond the Wall. These forces have a lot in common (for instance, they can both raise the dead), neither is benign to humanity, and my theory is that the conflict between the two is the reason the seasons in this world are so messed up. The third elemental force, of course, is whatever is behind the weirwoods and the Children of the Forest. That’s the force that defeated the Others thousands of years ago and built the Wall, and I believe that at the end of the series, that will be the force that defeats both ice \*and \*fire, and restores the seasons to their proper order. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1216 "2011-06-26T23:40:27Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > With long hair and a beard, but other than that, like **Alessan** says, they won’t really try to hide it from the viewers. Yeah, really, it doesn’t matter whether or not the _viewers_ realize it. It matters was to whether or not Dany realizes it. How far into book two is it when Belwas shows up? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1217 "2011-06-27T01:40:40Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > How far into book two is it when Belwas shows up? > > -Joe Near the end, definitely in the last quarter. I THINK it was Chapter 60-something. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1218 "2011-06-27T02:32:38Z")
That actress could be good as Brienne. But Hollywood can make just about any beauty look bad - remember Charlize Theron in _Monster_, or Cameron Diaz in _Being John Malkovitch_? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1219 "2011-06-27T03:16:44Z")
But she’s not just ugly, she is big muscular and manly, she is a warrior. You can be all those things and still be sexy, like Xena, Brienne has to be ugly on top of all those other things. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/1220 "2011-06-27T13:39:42Z")
True. There must be a big female wrestler out there somewhere who can act, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=62)