# Game of Thrones: omnibus discussion thread based on knowledge of books (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377 "2011-04-22T17:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/161 "2011-04-27T19:17:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Twenty quatloos on the big ape. Could you be more specific? ---
**Author:** ![Elysium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@Elysium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysium)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/162 "2011-04-27T19:19:30Z")
Confirmed by his editor just now as well. [http://suvudu.com/2011/04/yes-it-is-done-really.html](http://suvudu.com/2011/04/yes-it-is-done-really.html) ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/163 "2011-04-27T20:22:34Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > Cersei was having them killed for the same reason Stannis went to look at him with Jon Arryn, and why he later went through so much trouble to get his hands on Edric Stone. All Robert’s bastards look like him, and none of his legitimate children do. Anti-Joffery types can point to them and say, ‘look, Joffery’s not Robert’s son!’ Didn’t Stannis fetch Edric so that Melisandre could use his blood to make Stannis’s wildest dreams come true? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/164 "2011-04-27T20:29:41Z")
Woohoo! So I guess that publish date is for real then! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/165 "2011-04-27T20:37:48Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Didn’t Stannis fetch Edric so that Melisandre could use his blood to make Stannis’s wildest dreams come true? Yes, she needs royal blood. So far, there are enough people against her to spirit them (Edric, Mace’s child, Aemon) safely away. I suspect she’ll start casting her beady little eye on Jon next. (That subject should be covered in the next book, actually.) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/166 "2011-04-27T20:46:33Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Woohoo! So I guess that publish date is for real then! OK! I rarely buy new hardbacks, but I just ordered this year’s birthday present to myself. Currently 18.81 at Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/167 "2011-04-27T20:53:41Z")
Yes, she needs blood, but no, that’s not why Stannis wanted him. That may be why she pushed him that way, but that wasn’t Stannis’ plan, at least at first. Don’t know if Jon’s blood would count. He refused becoming King of the North, at best he’s brother to a king. Though if she knew about Robb naming him heir, that might be close enough . . . Here’s another ‘general question’ Does anyone think that Mellisandre had anything to do with Joffery, Robb, and Balon Greyjoy’s deaths? I’d thought it pretty clear she was scamming, that she’d just foreseen them. Claiming responsibility as evidence for her powers. Much as she’s trying to seduce Jon by repeating his exs catch phrase. – Now, she clearly want to use Jon for something, if only to drain his living ‘life fire’ Most of the guys on the wall have to take care of thier own life-fires . . . ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/168 "2011-04-27T21:26:30Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > Don’t know if Jon’s blood would count. He refused becoming King of the North, at best he’s brother to a king. Though if she knew about Robb naming him heir, that might be close enough . . . If Jon’s actually a Targaryen, he’s GOT royal blood already. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/169 "2011-04-28T01:56:41Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Could you be more specific? The hairy one. Dammit! _Still_ not specific enough… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/170 "2011-04-28T02:29:27Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > Here’s another ‘general question’ Does anyone think that Mellisandre had anything to do with Joffery, Robb, and Balon Greyjoy’s deaths? I’d thought it pretty clear she was scamming, that she’d just foreseen them. Claiming responsibility as evidence for her powers. That’s just opportunitism. She’s responsible for Renly, and for the castellan of Storm’s End (whose name escapes me). ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/171 "2011-04-28T15:01:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > As for Sansa…Sansa is sheltered. Her father was a traditionalist who did his best to instill in her virtues of honesty, honor, loyalty and idealism, and her mother did her best to instill in her the feminine qualities of courtliness, beauty and obedience. And those lessons stuck. > > Sansa at the beginning of the series is naive, but it’s because her parents wanted her to be. She’s actually, of all the Stark children, the most like her father, only without the experiences he’s had to toughen him. But I don’t think she’s dumb. On the contrary, she’s smart, and she survives in Joffrey’s court (also not restraining myself to the first book) because she is smart. She knows that her only weapons are her courtliness and her naivety, and she, stuck in a place surrounded by her enemies and the plaything of a spoiled, sadistic boy, uses them to her advantage, winning over Sandor Clegane, and, so she thinks, Ser Dontos Hollard. > > So, no, I don’t think she’s stupid or cruel. I donb’t think she’s stupid either…and definitely not cruel. But I really wanted to reach into the pages and bitch-slap her during the scenes after her forced marriage to Tyrion…Tyrion’s actions before and after the marriage certainly indicated that he was on her side, it was obvious that neither of them wanted to be in the marriage and the marriage itself ( aside from the political reasons )was basically a way for Cersei and Joffrey to torment them both. Yet she refused to let down her courtly armour for a minute and refused to have any sort of honest conversation with Tyrion…every attempt he made was met with a “whatever you say, my lord” response and if she had dropped that facade he could’ve been a valuable ally and a great help to her…it frustrated the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/172 "2011-04-28T15:33:26Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I donb’t think she’s stupid either…and definitely not cruel. But I really wanted to reach into the pages and bitch-slap her during the scenes after her forced marriage to Tyrion…Tyrion’s actions before and after the marriage certainly indicated that he was on her side, it was obvious that neither of them wanted to be in the marriage and the marriage itself ( aside from the political reasons )was basically a way for Cersei and Joffrey to torment them both. > > Yet she refused to let down her courtly armour for a minute and refused to have any sort of honest conversation with Tyrion…every attempt he made was met with a “whatever you say, my lord” response and if she had dropped that facade he could’ve been a valuable ally and a great help to her…it frustrated the hell out of me. I see what you’re saying, but you rally can’t blame Sansa for not opening up to another Lannister. Look what it got her when she was open and honest with Cersei. She coulnd’t know if Tyrion truly is an OK guy, so why take the risk? Especially when she thought she had Dontos on her side ready to whisk her away. All that said, Sansa is quite naive. Especially in the first book. She’s getting better, but I think she might be a little too trusting of Littlefinger. He never has anyone’s interest in mind but his own. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/173 "2011-04-28T15:37:52Z")
Yeah, we as the readers know that Tyrion is a good guy, but Sansa thought Cersei was on her side once before. I don’t blame her for not wanting to trust Tyrion completely. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/174 "2011-04-28T17:37:14Z")
So Telivision Without Pity has a thread for people that never read the books. By the second page they already have R+L=J figured out. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/175 "2011-04-28T17:40:43Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > So Telivision Without Pity has a thread for people that never read the books. By the second page they already have R+L=J figured out. Damn. Color me skeptical. That board has more than a few posters who take inordinate pride in saying “I called it!”. They might not have read the books, but they probably read the Spoiler thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/176 "2011-04-28T17:44:33Z")
Yes, I thought that as well. The “you have my blood” and not “you are my son” line along with his general secrecy about it are enough to speculate, probably. I don’t think I thought about it at all until we figure out that Robert’s version of the story is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/177 "2011-04-28T17:48:17Z")
Ok, the next page has “Lyana actually didn’t like Robert, she willingly went with Rhaegar and died in childbirth.” Yeah, I think they’re full of shit now. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/178 "2011-04-28T19:19:40Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > All that said, Sansa is quite naive. Especially in the first book. She’s getting better, but I think she might be a little too trusting of Littlefinger. He never has anyone’s interest in mind but his own. I predict that Sansa will emerge in the next couple of books as a cunning plotter perhaps even managing to outfit Littlefinger. Basically Sansa, Arya and Bran will each emerge as formidable characters using their different strengths: Sansa with her beauty and manners will excel at court intrigue, Arya will become a skillful assassin, and Bran will become some kind of powerful mystic. The interesting question is whether they will all be on the same side. What role will Zombie Cat play? And I suppose Rickon will emerge as a more active character as well. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/179 "2011-04-29T00:52:49Z")
I remember reading somewhere that the fact that Sansa lost her wolf early on will be significant - Martin has dropped hints that the fate of the children are tied to their wolves, and because Lady is dead Sansa can no longer be part of the “pack.” I dunno what that means for her future. I just hope she kills Littlefinger someday. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377/180 "2011-04-29T00:58:17Z")
I read a sample chapter from DWD that had this about the wolves, in one of Jon’s chapters: The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood and bone and sinew was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins, but he had lost his other brother, grey-furred and smelling of the sun. Once they had been six, five whimpering blindly in the snow beside their dead mother, and him alone, the pale one, crawling off into the trees on shaky legs as his litter mates sucked cool milk from hard dead nipples. Now only four remained of the six born that day, and one of those was lost and gone. Speculation about passage: Robb’s wolf and Sansa’s wolf are dead, so neither of them are part of the pack now. Who is the lost and gone one? I suppose the obvious answer is Nymeria/Arya, Could it be Rickon/Shaggywolf? Shaggywolf has basically acted nutso from the beginning and has not really demonstrated any pack-like tendencies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-omnibus-discussion-thread-based-on-knowledge-of-books-open-spoilers/579377.md?page=10)