# Game of Thrones, Post-Book 5 Speculation (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864 "2013-04-16T19:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/1 "2013-04-16T19:52:09Z")
I’ve just finished _A Dance of Dragons_ and I wanted to put some of my speculation and theories to the board: 1. The Wall is going to come down. We’ve been told so many times how important it is for the realm of men, that it just has to come down at the climax of the story, or at least be breached by the White Walkers. 2. When that happens, Bran will be the only one in a position to help save the Seven Kingdoms from the invasion. Possibly, he’ll be aided by Sam Tarly. 3. Jon Snow is not actually Ned’s bastard son. He’s the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Which means that Daenarys will have yet another suitor, possibly, if he survives what happened at the end of Book 5. 4. If Jon survives, and if he is Rhaegar’s son, Arianne Martell, now the sole heir of Dorne because of Quentyn’s little encounter with the dragons, is going to try to marry him. 5. Again, if he survives, Jon Snow is going to end up in a sexual relationship with Val. (Actually, that might be more wishful thinking than a theory.) 6. Margaery Tyrell will be acquitted of the charges against her. The Tyrells will have the Margaery-Tommen marriage declared invalid and Margaery will try to form an alliance with Aegon. 7. Daenerys will invade Westeros but she will end up having to fight White Walkers instead of the Lannisters or Baratheons. 8. Someone will try to persuade Daenerys, Aegon Targaryen, and Jon Snow to enter into a three-sided marriage so that all three dragons will have Targaryen riders. 9. Sansa will somehow find herself at the wall, where she will be the one who kills the leader of the White Walkers (this, according to the prophecy that Arya heard when she was with the Bannerless). 10. Sansa will be instrumental in Petyr Baelish’s death. 11. Tyrion will find out what happened to Tysha. She might even still be alive, in which case, his marriage to Sansa will be annuled for bigamy. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/2 "2013-04-16T19:57:44Z")
There are 3 dragons. Originally the first invader king (what’s his name) rode the dragons with his two sisters as they took over Westeros. This time, the riders of the dragons will be Dany’s cousins - Jon Snow (after his resurrection by Melissandre) and Aegon. Dragon fire should be quite fine to take out the Others. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/3 "2013-04-16T19:58:07Z")
Just to add that the open spoilers in this thread should be limited to the actual text of the first five books. No outside information on what Martin or others might have given regarding plans for the remaining books. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/4 "2013-04-16T22:03:12Z")
I never believed that Young Griff/Aegon was legit. I think he’s Illyrio’s son. Illyrio’s wife had Targ colored hair. Other people have proposed that she might be a Blackfyre. Which would make sense given the Golden Company connection. I think that Melisandre is going to resurrect Jon Snow or maybe Jon will just warg into Ghost. Or maybe both. I do think it’d be really cool and bold if Jon just stayed dead. Ramsey’s letter is a lie. Stannis is going to whup his creepy ass because Stannis is the mannis. Sadly, I don’t think the series will end with Stannis alive and king. Even though it really should. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/5 "2013-04-16T22:28:04Z")
Yeah, I didn’t believe that Ramsey had killed Stannis. But I do think he might have Mance Rayder captive. I don’t know if I agree that Stannis _should_ be king. I think one of the points of the series is that Westeros’s political/social system is fundamentally sick and there is some big change coming. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/6 "2013-04-16T22:31:59Z")
Theon, Stannis, Jaime, Brienne, Petyr, Melisandre, Euron, Victarion, Jorah, Barristan, and Arya will die. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/7 "2013-04-16T22:38:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Theon, Stannis, Jaime, Brienne, Petyr, Melisandre, Euron, Victarion, Jorah, Barristan, and Arya will die. I agree with all those except Arya. I would substitute Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![BlueSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BlueSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/8 "2013-04-16T23:34:00Z")
Bran is eventually going to be able to warg into one of the dragons. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/9 "2013-04-17T00:06:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Someone will try to persuade Daenerys, Aegon Targaryen, and Jon Snow to enter into a three-sided marriage so that all three dragons will have Targaryen riders. What is this, _Wheel of Time_? 😉 If “Aegon”'s not Illyrio’s son, I’ll eat my books. Ditto for Jon and L/R. He’s not dead, either, Mel will save him. Tyrion will somehow become Dany’s Hand of the Queen. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/10 "2013-04-17T00:28:05Z")
Lancel and the Hound are going to fight franken Gregor. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/11 "2013-04-17T00:52:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Jon Snow is not actually Ned’s bastard son. He’s the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Which means that Daenarys will have yet another suitor, possibly, if he survives what happened at the end of Book 5. > > . I agree with this one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/12 "2013-04-17T01:01:47Z")
> [@BlueSilver](#): > > Bran is eventually going to be able to warg into one of the dragons. I hadn’t thought of that. Nice idea. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/13 "2013-04-17T01:55:00Z")
I think we’ve had enough dead Starks (inc Jon). I think Jon will leave the wall, because the Night’s Watch serve for life and he’s dead, but will be resurrected by Melisandre (who will die, Stannis will die… just about everyone but Starks will die). Hopefully he’ll come back normal and not all Stonehearty or Frankengregory. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/14 "2013-04-17T02:10:59Z")
I am curious as to what is in store for Sansa. I remember reading some speculation somewhere that Sansa is already doomed because her direwolf is no longer alive. I wonder how significant that will be in later books. Also curious about the prophecy about her slaying a giant in a castle of snow. That seemed to come true when she tore apart Robert’s doll in her snow castle but I hope that was a red herring. Although I can’t really imagine a scenario where Sansa slays an actual giant. On other boards they’ve speculated that it means she’s going to kill Gregor Clegane at Winterfell, but how she’d pull that off is beyond my imagination. I hope Sansa kills Littlefinger at some point. That would be so satisfying. Almost as satisfying as Jamie killing Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/15 "2013-04-17T08:08:53Z")
The three dragons will be ridden by Tyrion, Danny, and Jon Snow in the big battle vs. the White Walkers. Aegon will try ride a dragon but get toasted because he’s only the Mummer’s Dragon. Those three will somehow form a ruling troika, with Danny serving as the ‘heart’ of it, Jon serving as the ‘face’ of it, and Tyrion in the background running the business of ruling the land. The Hound will duel FrankenGregor and kill him with Sansa somehow playing a key role in it. I even suspect they will end up marrying. (Her marriage to Tyrion will turn out to be invalid, perhaps his earlier wife will turn up live.) Arya will die killing someone ‘important’ in guise as a faceless man. Maybe Cersei? ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/16 "2013-04-17T10:20:04Z")
I was catching up on the tv show a few days ago, watching the whole unsullied thing play out. Remind me, has it ever been addressed why Daenrys didn’t just go to the Golden Company and say “Hey, i have Dragons now, who’s up for lot’s of gold and reclaiming their ancestral lands?” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/17 "2013-04-17T13:20:24Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > I was catching up on the tv show a few days ago, watching the whole unsullied thing play out. > > Remind me, has it ever been addressed why Daenrys didn’t just go to the Golden Company and say > > “Hey, i have Dragons now, who’s up for lot’s of gold and reclaiming their ancestral lands?” Daenerys is not enthusiastic about sacking, raping, pillaging, and plundering. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/18 "2013-04-17T13:43:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. The Wall is going to come down. We’ve been told so many times how important it is for the realm of men, that it just has to come down at the climax of the story, or at least be breached by the White Walkers. I tend to agree, or it’s also possible that some sort of human treachery may allow the Others to circumvent it. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. When that happens, Bran will be the only one in a position to help save the Seven Kingdoms from the invasion. Possibly, he’ll be aided by Sam Tarly. I have a feeling Bran will end up more like a CIC / C3 system for the anti-Others forces, what with the seeing through weirwoods, etc… I don’t know that he’ll actually have any useful powers to directly defeat them. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Jon Snow is not actually Ned’s bastard son. He’s the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Which means that Daenarys will have yet another suitor, possibly, if he survives what happened at the end of Book 5. So what if he is? Doesn’t that just make him Rhaegar’s bastard instead of Ned’s bastard? IIRC, Rhaegar was already married to Elia of Dorne when Jon was born. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. If Jon survives, and if he is Rhaegar’s son, Arianne Martell, now the sole heir of Dorne because of Quentyn’s little encounter with the dragons, is going to try to marry him. Possible; although I have a suspicion that GRRM will throw us a real curve with Jon’s origin, if he even addresses it at all. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Margaery Tyrell will be acquitted of the charges against her. The Tyrells will have the Margaery-Tommen marriage declared invalid and Margaery will try to form an alliance with Aegon. I have a suspicion that she’ll remain queen with Tommen, but the Tyrells will aim to control him rather than the Lannisters, and a southern war will break out, diverting attention from the ominous stuff going on in the North. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Daenerys will invade Westeros but she will end up having to fight White Walkers instead of the Lannisters or Baratheons. I think you’re right- somehow, I suspect the dragons will be powerful medicine against white walkers and wights. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Sansa will somehow find herself at the wall, where she will be the one who kills the leader of the White Walkers (this, according to the prophecy that Arya heard when she was with the Bannerless). While I think Sansa has an important role to play, I think it’ll be more in the line of becoming the regent in Winterfell to Rickon (he’ll be the King in the North, due to boys inheriting ahead of girls, but she’ll be well trained to play and win until he’s old enough to take the throne. This is assuming Bran can’t be King and a greenseer. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Sansa will be instrumental in Petyr Baelish’s death. I agree. No idea how, but she’ll somehow hang his scheming ass out to dry at some point. > [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. Tyrion will find out what happened to Tysha. She might even still be alive, in which case, his marriage to Sansa will be annuled for bigamy. I think he’ll find out, but I’m sure it’ll be tragic. I can’t see Tyrion getting the “happily ever after” treatment. I do think he’ll end up Lord of Casterly Rock though. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/19 "2013-04-17T13:58:58Z")
I don’t buy the Our Three Heroes Riding Dragons into Battle, Triumphing over the Others theory. (Whoever the 3 heroes are). That seems too much like standard fantasy mary-sue-ism to me. I count on Martin to subvert it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864/20 "2013-04-17T14:47:34Z")
Oh, yeah, I didn’t say that any of these things would result in ultimate success. It’s entirely possible that human civilisation in Westeros and Essos will collapse. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-post-book-5-speculation-open-spoilers/655864.md?page=2)