# Game of Thrones' Producers' next move: Confederacy. Sigh **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720 "2017-07-20T14:47:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/41 "2017-07-20T21:02:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The people who are going to be watching and cheering the Confederacy, no matter how vile, depraved and disgusting it is, don’t do nuance anyway. Which is going to happen in literally any discussion of the Civil War and the Confederacy, in any context, even “Here’s what happened in the history of this country from 1861 to 1865.” And yet, I’m pretty sure you’re not going to be leveling this rant at history teachers, despite the fact that history teachers do not generally go out of their way to show the Confederacy a vile, depraved, or disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/42 "2017-07-20T21:05:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which is going to happen in literally any discussion of the Civil War and the Confederacy, in any context, even “Here’s what happened in the history of this country from 1861 to 1865.” And yet, I’m pretty sure you’re not going to be leveling this rant at history teachers, despite the fact that **history teachers do not generally go out of their way to show the Confederacy a vile, depraved, or disgusting**. This one does. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/43 "2017-07-20T21:30:01Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > This one does. 😃 Sneak some mentions of evolution in there, and you’re my hero. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/44 "2017-07-20T21:30:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > This one does. 😃 So, help me out here, man. You’ve argued that, no matter how vile and despicable the Confederacy is shown to be in this TV series, there will still be people who take it as vindication of their support for the Confederacy. Therefore, the show should not exist, and the people making it deserve to be “outcasts” who “die penniless.” How does none of that apply to you for teaching about the Civil War in school? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/45 "2017-07-20T21:30:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which is going to happen in literally any discussion of the Civil War and the Confederacy, in any context, even “Here’s what happened in the history of this country from 1861 to 1865.” And yet, I’m pretty sure you’re not going to be leveling this rant at history teachers, despite the fact that history teachers do not generally go out of their way to show the Confederacy a vile, depraved, or disgusting. Perhaps they can use “The War of Northern Aggression” unironically in th show. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/46 "2017-07-20T21:36:51Z")
Does anyone know of any popcorn sales in the in the D.C. area? I’ll need at least two bags; one for watching the show, one to eat while reading the thread about the show. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/47 "2017-07-20T21:45:13Z")
I’ve already seen charges that white people have no business writing about ‘POC’\* in 2017. \*So white people can’t write about Tibetans, Koreans, Filipinos, Indians…Indians…Hawaiins…etc…? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/48 "2017-07-20T21:56:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, help me out here, man. > > You’ve argued that, no matter how vile and despicable the Confederacy is shown to be in this TV series, there will still be people who take it as vindication of their support for the Confederacy. Therefore, the show should not exist, and the people making it deserve to be “outcasts” who “die penniless.” > > How does none of that apply to you for teaching about the Civil War in school? I am not broadcasting my opinions across the world’s airwaves, especially in a time where such supporters are finding their heinous views not only defended, but openly supported by major political groups in this country. I withdraw the “outcast” and penniless" part of my screed. That was an over-reaction. But I still hope it craters, and I would still prefer that it not be made in the current political environment. Better? ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/49 "2017-07-20T22:08:45Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > How had slavery “evolved”? In what fashion? Drunky Smurf – huh – it’s a well-developed alternative-history novel, so it’d be hard to summarize in a comment. Still, I’ll try, assuming you’re interested. Major spoilers for Underground Airlines follow. [spoiler]In the novel, a constitutional amendment is passed after Lincoln’s early assassination that prevents any future federal abolition of slavery – a compromise that averts civil war. Over time, up to the present day, all states but four abolish the practice. Still, a version of the Fugitive Slave Act remains in force, so slaves who escape to free states live in fear. The novel is narrated by an escaped slave who works for the Feds as an undercover slave-catcher hunting other escapees. He escaped slavery as a child, so his understanding of what slavery looks like today is limited. Through the course of the novel, as he infiltrates himself back into the slave-holding South that still exists, he finds out how, as you ask, slavery has evolved. Lots of rape and really inefficient agricultural practices, is how I’d sum it up. The passages that take place in the slave states are truly disturbing. And of course, in this alternative universe, black citizens living in free states are subject to constant harassment. They might be escapees, you see. Such a different world from the one we live in. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/50 "2017-07-20T22:13:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I am not broadcasting my opinions across the world’s airwaves, especially in a time where such supporters are finding their heinous views not only defended, but openly supported by major political groups in this country. That’s not a particularly exculpatory explanation, especially given the fact that you’re part of a profession that’s going to reach more people - by an order of magnitude - on this specific subject, then will ever see this TV show. I also genuinely do not understand the idea that, in a climate where some negative thing - racism, fascism, what have you - is on the rise, means that you can’t create art related to that that thing. To the contrary, that’s precisely the circumstance in which art most desperately needs to address those subjects. _Guernica_ matters because it was made in 1937. _Uncle Tom’s Cabin_ matters because it was published in 1852. _And the Band Played On_ matters because it was written in 1987. We need art that address the current political situation, and we need it _today_. Not thirty years from now, when we’re a safe distance away from the issues the work explores. > [@](#): > > I withdraw the “outcast” and penniless" part of my screed. That was an over-reaction. But I still hope it craters, and I would still prefer that it not be made in the current political environment. > > Better? Honestly? Not much. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/51 "2017-07-20T22:28:19Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Drunky Smurf – huh – it’s a well-developed alternative-history novel, so it’d be hard to summarize in a comment. Still, I’ll try, assuming you’re interested. > > Major spoilers for Underground Airlines follow. I wonder if some people are using “evolved” in the hippie new age sense, to mean, “changed and grown for the better; enlightened.” I dislike that meaning and wasn’t using it; rather, I was using it to mean “adapted to a changing environment.” In the novel–and these are very minor spoilers–slavery is shown as “evolved” in many ways. A few ways include: -Bar code tattoos on slaves’ necks (escaped slaves generally have a solid black box tattooed over their bar code, and a lot of abolitionists get the same black box tattooed on their necks in solidarity). -GPS trackers on especially valuable slaves -Use of modern corporate “motivational” culture to try to keep the enslaved in line There are a lot of such details, and in a larger sense, it’s evolved to deal with the novel’s complex political situation. Nothing in the evolution makes slavery look okay. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/52 "2017-07-21T04:57:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Indeed. It’s different than Man in the High Castle because the folks that idolize the Japanese empire or the Nazis are a very small population. Folks that idolize the Confederacy is a far greater proportion of the population. > > I also have a really bad feeling about this. Maybe in America obviously but the official line in Japan is literally “Japan fought a war in self-defense and all war crimes including comfort women is greatly exaggerated if it existed at all”, which also permeates it’s culture as there’s a bunch of video games and anime that are very pro-Imperial Japan or white-wash Japan’s involvement in World War 2. Which then has some hooks in American culture as whole since there have been Japanese groups in America pushing to ban memorials for Korean Comfort Women as being solely to bash Japan. So yes, there are people who look at works like “Man in the High Castle” and actually think that’s how things should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/53 "2017-07-21T05:55:16Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Maybe in America obviously but the official line in Japan is literally “Japan fought a war in self-defense and all war crimes including comfort women is greatly exaggerated if it existed at all”, which also permeates it’s culture as there’s a bunch of video games and anime that are very pro-Imperial Japan or white-wash Japan’s involvement in World War 2. Which then has some hooks in American culture as whole since there have been Japanese groups in America pushing to ban memorials for Korean Comfort Women as being solely to bash Japan. Fuck 'em. They deserve every Godzilling that comes their way. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/54 "2017-07-21T11:51:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There’s a brilliant novel I read a couple months ago, [Underground Airlines](http://www.npr.org/2016/07/07/484012349/underground-airlines-presents-a-scarily-realistic-alternate-history). It has a similar setup: four states maintain slavery into the 21st century, and slavery has absolutely “evolved.” It’s terrifying, brutal, sickening. > > This is absolutely an area that can be explored through good storytelling, IMO. I have no opinion on whether this project will do so, but I don’t think it should be off-limits. Ninjaed And I believe that book was the first in a planned series. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/55 "2017-07-21T15:03:25Z")
I head it’s going to be a comedy. Slavery porn? Yeah, no thanks. It’s a dumb idea for a show. _Underground Airlines_ was a poorly plotted, badly written piece of crap. Is the show based on it? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/56 "2017-07-21T15:28:22Z")
CNN reporting on how HBO and D and D from GoT were expecting the backlash: ['Confederate' team knew backlash was coming](http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/21/media/hbo-confederate-backlash/index.html) > [@](#): > > Some critics called the premise harmful and questioned whether such a show was appropriate considering divisions that already exist in American politics. Others were irked that Benioff and Weiss, who are white, are tackling a story that rewrites black history. > > As Vulture pointed out, those making the latter criticism often overlooked the fact that the Spellmans, who are black, will be Benioff and Weiss’ partners in the series. > > “We all knew it was coming in one form or another,” Benioff said of the criticism, which he felt was “a little premature,” considering the script hasn’t even been written. > > “We don’t have an outline yet. We don’t even have character names. So everything is brand new and nothing’s been written,” he said. “You know, we might f\*\*\* it up. But we haven’t yet.” Fair. We’ll see how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/57 "2017-07-21T16:30:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > _Underground Airlines_ was a poorly plotted, badly written piece of crap. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/58 "2017-07-21T18:33:34Z")
Depicting something is not endorsing it. Holding a mirror up to the “Southern values” the show will no doubt depict can only be a good thing. And beyond all that there is slavery right now in the world we live in. In America even. It didn’t end in 1865. The preemptive outrage about this is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/59 "2017-07-21T18:53:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you’re okay with a show about an alternative Britain with dragons, then this is nothing. So, Reign of Fire ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720/60 "2017-07-21T20:36:06Z")
If they wanted to troll people they should’ve done a “what-if” where whites were enslaved by black people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-producers-next-move-confederacy-sigh/791720.md?page=4)