# game of thrones redo season 8 change.org petition **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032 "2019-05-16T00:59:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/101 "2019-05-20T23:40:48Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > In Martin’s fictional world, “Kings Landing” is the biggest city not only in its own kingdom, but on the entire continent, and as such is the economic engine of a large part of that continent. > > Was the same true of Dresden? So, more of a Berlin? Because that city didn’t get out of WWII in such great shape, either. > [@](#): > > Or was Dresden destroyed as, basically, leverage: _if you don’t want this to happen to any of your other cities, you’d better surrender._ (That’s a notable simplification of the WW2 situation, of course, but it’s the part that’s relevant to this discussion.) No such thing was going on in the GoT storyline: Dany wasn’t trying to get a massive military machine that dominated the continent to stand down–as was the case with the Allies confronting the German Nazis. Was Danys not at war with the established power structure of Westeros? I thought her whole deal was invading and conquering the country, in which case, eliminating the economic and political power center of your enemies strikes me as pretty solid tactics. > [@](#): > > I can’t see that Dresden provides a good analogy in any way to the GoT plot-line. Better would be, say, London in 1480—if a foreign invader had burned it to the ground, much of the economic life of the entire nation of England would have been massively effected. Not so with Dresden (and Germany) in 1945. You said that burning a city full of innocent people was the sort of thing that only someone who was “full on insane” would do. I’m not sure how the relative importance of the city functions into that - firebombing Dresden was the act of rational people because the city wasn’t the most important city in Germany? That seems kind of backwards, to me - surely, the more important the city, the more justification there is for using scorched earth tactics against it? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/102 "2019-05-21T11:33:12Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Multiple threads now into a series of uncalled-for insults of people who criticized a (hacky, ill-considered, lazily written) fantasy television season, congrats. This is the sneeringest and the snidest and the least called for. Yes, you’ve nailed it. I thought the plot beats were awfully delivered because I sleep with a Badass Dany body pillow and had all my friends pumped to watch the Awesome Dragon Lady. I thought this would end with a Harry Potter style flash forward of Dany and Jon’s kids going to school with Samwell Jr. It’s not that I just watched it, thought it was notably poorly done, and then went on with my life – I’m lashing out because of _heartbreak_. That’s where my casually held (and previously not even expressed because why wade into that) opinions about bad storytelling are coming from. Your description of the kind of person you’re not (body pillow, etc…) sounds to me like EXACTLY the kind of person who would create and/or sign that pathetic petition, yes. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/103 "2019-05-21T11:43:50Z")
There are some people who criticize specific aspects of the show. Character arcs were insufficiently demonstrated. Dialogue was clunky. Actors lack chemistry. All that stuff seems like reasonable conversation. There are some people who personalize it. The showrunners don’t care anymore. They blew it off in order to get to Star Wars sooner. Look at these ambiguous clips from the actors, they’re proof that the actors hate the show. This is bullshit conversation. There are some people who sign petitions asking for the show to be remade, or who write about how HBO could be sued for lost revenue. This is delusional conversation. If you’re sticking to the first category, there’s no reason to take criticism or mocking of the second and third categories as applying to you. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/104 "2019-05-21T11:54:12Z")
As I keep saying Martin deserves the blame for not finishing the books. But somehow to many he walks on water so he is untouchable. So instead they blast showrunners, HBO,etc. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/105 "2019-05-21T11:54:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, more of a Berlin? More like Warsaw, which, like King’s Landing, was destroyed in large part deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/106 "2019-05-21T12:02:31Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > As I keep saying Martin deserves the blame for not finishing the books. But somehow to many he walks on water so he is untouchable. So instead they blast showrunners, HBO,etc. [George RR Martin is not your bitch](http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/107 "2019-05-21T12:13:50Z")
note that link above is from 2009 which is when Martin was still releasing books ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/108 "2019-05-21T12:27:51Z")
Still, it does bring up the fair point in all directions, that Martin, the showrunners, HBO, etc. make their creative and business decisions and we like it or don’t like it but we don’t get to take it as some sort of affront. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/109 "2019-05-21T13:35:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > note that link above is from 2009 which is when Martin was still releasing books A decade of time has not made him any more your bitch now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/110 "2019-05-21T14:12:45Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > wow 170000 people have signed the petition… This could potentially ruin the two writers reputation imo. Not among the people who matter. I assure you Benioff and Weiss are not the slightest bit worried. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/111 "2019-05-21T14:15:11Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > It is quite obvious that the showrunners stopped caring and just wanted to wrap it up as soon as possible so they could earn some big DisneyBucks with Star Wars. The coffee cup, the countless inaccuracies (Gendry Rivers/them thinking Dickon Tarly is the older brother etc), the incomplete and unsatisfying character arcs, etc… it’s all clear as day. A coffee cup in scene is an error completely unrelated to writing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/112 "2019-05-21T14:39:36Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > note that link above is from 2009 which is when Martin was still releasing books > [@Telemark](#): > > A decade of time has not made him any more your bitch now. For real, what a strange answer. Setting aside the fact that the blog post was written when four years had passed since the last book’s release, with no new release date on the horizon. Set aside the fact that the post is called “Entitlement issues.” How the hell would an increase in time between book publications in any way change the fact that George RR Martin didn’t sign a contract to work for anyone? His creativity is his to share or withhold as he sees fit. You want an ending to the story, write your own and be happy in it. You’re not entitled to his prose. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/113 "2019-05-21T17:42:07Z")
People who weren’t happy with the GoT ending should pretend it ended like [this](https://youtu.be/ZgdUWXf8jJk?t=20) (the first 45 seconds should be plenty). (Actually, that would be an entirely satisfactory ending for ANY television series.) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/114 "2019-05-21T17:45:17Z")
I don’t care if he puts out any more books or not. I just think he should get blame for the seasons beyond the books if you are also going to blame the TV people. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/115 "2019-05-21T18:34:23Z")
Some of the more ludicrous aspects of the complaints: “The soundtrack, acting, visuals, directing and cinematogrophy were astounding. I just didn’t like shows. Ok I didn’t like the writing. Except when i did.” “DnD sucked when they ran out of books. But Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards was great!!” And the media jumping in with both feet is just beyond stupid. “I heard a lot of people didn’t like this season GIVEUSCLICKSWEDONTLIKEITEITHER GOD WERE DYING HELP US!!” ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/116 "2019-05-21T23:34:30Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I can’t see that Dresden provides a good analogy in any way to the GoT plot-line. Better would be, say, London in 1480—if a foreign invader had burned it to the ground, much of the economic life of the entire nation of England would have been massively effected. Not so with Dresden (and Germany) in 1945. That’s a 100% cop out by trying to pretend Dresden was unique. The allies didn’t just bomb Dresden; they bombed almost every large city in Germany with the explicit goal of destroying the economic life of the entire empire of Germany. Or look at this list of historically deliberatley razed cities, which isn’t exhaustive but does provide a plethora of examples across millennia of time and technology levels: [Category:Razed cities - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Razed_cities) The idea that razing cities is ‘oh so crazy’ and that it’s absurd for pure, sweet Dany to burn a city to the ground when people like her have done so repeatedly AND it’s been clear since season 2 that she wants to burn cities to the ground is simply delusional. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Multiple threads now into a series of uncalled-for insults of people who criticized a (hacky, ill-considered, lazily written) fantasy television season, congrats. If they criticized Dany acting like a typical conquerer and matching what she’s been foreshadowed to do since season 2, they deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/117 "2019-05-22T00:15:49Z")
actually heres a thing on how shareholders can possibly sue at&T for letting GOT’s brand value be “ruined” by this last season [https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/opinion-game-of-thrones-fiasco-shareholders-would-have-a-good-case-to-sue-in-court/ar-AABDVHf?li=BBnbfcN#page=2](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/opinion-game-of-thrones-fiasco-shareholders-would-have-a-good-case-to-sue-in-court/ar-AABDVHf?li=BBnbfcN#page=2) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/118 "2019-05-22T00:25:32Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > actually heres a thing on how shareholders can possibly sue at&T for letting GOT’s brand value be “ruined” by this last season > [MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/opinion-game-of-thrones-fiasco-shareholders-would-have-a-good-case-to-sue-in-court/ar-AABDVHf?li=BBnbfcN#page=2) And as has been said in the other thread on this, it’s a poppycock idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/119 "2019-05-22T00:34:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > That’s a 100% cop out by trying to pretend Dresden was unique. I neither brought up Dresden, nor claimed that it was unique. So you don’t seem to have much of a point, here. > [@Pantastic](#): > > The allies didn’t just bomb Dresden; they bombed almost every large city in Germany with the explicit goal of destroying the economic life of the entire empire of Germany. That’s right. And that’s _exactly_ what makes the WW2 bombings useless as a defense of the GoT writers’ choice to have Dany destroy Kings Landing. In WW2 the Allies, faced with a weakened but still formidable army that held the majority of a continent, needed to persuade the leader(s) who’d ordered that army to take all that territory, to stand down. In GoT, _there was no military force encamped all over Westeros._ No military force held Westeros in defiance of Dany. The KL leader had hired mercenaries and ordered her forces to hold the city and portions of the coast. That was it. In GoT, there was no equivalent of the Nazi Army holding Westeros, and thus no need to put on a show of destruction to force a non-existent army holding the land mass to stand down. It’s a useless argument, if your goal is to “prove” that the writers’ choice to have Dany burn KL made sense. > [@Miller](#): > > So, more of a Berlin? Because that city didn’t get out of WWII in such great shape, either. > Was Danys not at war with the established power structure of Westeros? What established power structure of Westeros? Of what did that “structure” consist? > [@Miller](#): > > I thought her whole deal was invading and conquering the country, in which case, eliminating the economic and political power center of your enemies strikes me as pretty solid tactics. It might be pretty solid tactics if the GoT world had been anything like WW2 Europe. But it wasn’t. Not even close. The character is depicted as _destroying what would have been her own wealth and resources_, as well as making herself hated. What she did provided no benefit to her or to her allies; there was no military force occupying the land mass that might have stood down as a reaction to the destruction of the major city. The story established no such thing as a military force occupying the land mass. So there was no one to stand down. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/120 "2019-05-22T00:37:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The character is depicted as _destroying what would have been her own wealth and resources_, as well as making herself hated. What she did provided no benefit to her or to her allies; there was no military force occupying the land mass that might have stood down as a reaction to the destruction of the major city. The story established no such thing as a military force occupying the land mass. So there was no one to stand down. Westeros has plenty of other cities with their own military forces. When word gets out what happened to Kings Landing when they refused to surrender prior to battle, how will that affect morale, when Dany shows up and demands their surrender prior to battle? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032.md?page=7)