# game of thrones redo season 8 change.org petition **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032 "2019-05-16T00:59:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/161 "2019-05-25T22:34:50Z")
If the redo season 8, I think they should start at ep 3. Mostly the same, but at the end, the white walkers and the dead win the day, and kill everyone at Winterfell. The last 3 episodes then are the White Walkers and their growing army of undead at King’s landing, then dorne, then across the sea to Bravos and slaver’s bay, each time, focusing on all the characters that are left in those areas, and how they, too, fail to stop the inevitable ending of mankind on this world. Episode 6 ends with the Night King surrounded by his army, stretching from horizon to horizon, as he looks up into the camera as if to say, “You’re next.” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/162 "2019-05-26T02:25:59Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The Unsullied and Dothraki wouldn’t have been likely to care about Daenerys murdering thousands of Kings Landing residents (as I assume you were saying, here). But if she were going to rule the Westeros land mass (or ‘Seven Kingdoms’), she would have to be interacting with people other than Unsullied and Dothraki, on a fairly regular basis. That’s why I (we?) were confused by what you wrote: > [@Sherrerd](#): > > Dany made herself the Butcher of Kings Landing. She would never be able to rule, after that. No guards she could buy could be trusted not to assassinate her; no moment away from a wakeful dragon would ever be safe for her. No one would trust her. She would not be able to rule. Her action cannot be explained as ‘what she felt she had to do to rule effectively.’ She could rule after that because she had thousands of Unsullied and Dothraki (plus a dragon!) to enforce her will. She wouldn’t need to “buy” guards because she has thousands of Unsullied for that. She could have endless moments away from a wakeful dragon and be perfectly safe because again, she has the Unsullied and Dothraki. She doesn’t need the lords of the land to trust her; their fear of reprisal is sufficient to keep them in line. She would absolutely be able to rule because as history has shown us time and again, “might makes right.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/163 "2019-05-26T03:43:44Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > She would never be able to rule, after that. No guards she could buy could be trusted not to assassinate her; no moment away from a wakeful dragon would ever be safe for her. No one would trust her. She would not be able to rule. Her action cannot be explained as ‘what she felt she had to do to rule effectively.’ This explains why Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Genghis Khan were all assassinated by their own people. All I can say is that your understanding of history is woefully deficient. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/164 "2019-05-26T04:16:39Z")
I’m not sure mocking Sherrerd for saying Dany’s actions made her more like to be assassinated by her own allies is as much of a winning argument as you guys seem to think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/165 "2019-05-26T04:25:05Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I’m not sure mocking Sherrerd for saying Dany’s actions made her more like to be assassinated by her own allies is as much of a winning argument as you guys seem to think it is. On the other hand, I’m sure it is.🙂 How about providing some examples of tyrants assassinated because of their brutality towards civilian populations, rather than because the assassins feared for their own skins? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/166 "2019-05-26T04:35:06Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I’m not sure mocking Sherrerd for saying Dany’s actions made her more like to be assassinated by her own allies is as much of a winning argument as you guys seem to think it is. I’m honestly not mocking her. For the longest time I assumed she was talking about a general truth, which is why I kept bringing up real life history to disprove that general truth. Once she clarified that she’s not talking about a general truth, but rather specifically about Dany razing King’s Landing and how Westerosi would be expected to respond to it, her replies make a ton more sense. But given that new context, her premise makes even less sense to me. She can’t “buy” trustworthy bodyguards? She has thousands of of ride-or-die Unsullied and Dothraki _ **worshippers** _ who would defend her to the last man, no questions asked. Nobody in Westeros would go against that force to try and assassinate her. (Except Jon Snow, because he knows nothing.) I honestly don’t understand the logic of the original argument. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/167 "2019-05-26T06:14:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > On the other hand, I’m sure it is.🙂 > > How about providing some examples of tyrants assassinated because of their brutality towards civilian populations, rather than because the assassins feared for their own skins? Well, I’d have to start with literally Daenerys Targaryen, ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/168 "2019-05-26T06:43:54Z")
He didn’t kill her because of what she did to King’s Landing. It was the promise of her continued campaign that did her in. If instead she went Machiavellian – raze the city to start with and then follow that up with mercy – Jon would have been on board. (He literally begged her to show mercy right before he killed her, but she refused.) The only way Tyrion could get through to him was to convince him that this was only the beginning. If it were the end he wouldn’t have turned. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/169 "2019-05-26T07:05:24Z")
…and now that I’ve typed that out, I realize I’m only quibbling with Sherrerd about minor details. If instead Sherrerd said her intention to continue sacking cities from Winterfell to Dorne was the part that ensured her allies assassinating her, I couldn’t argue against it. The sack of King’s Landing was fine, no worries. The followup of “And now everyone else!” was stupid and did (mostly) what Sherrerd said. (Finding bodyguards and worrying about how the nobles reacted was always moot; only Jon could have killed her.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/170 "2019-05-26T15:11:45Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > If instead Sherrerd said her intention to continue sacking cities from Winterfell to Dorne was the part that ensured her allies assassinating her, I couldn’t argue against it. It wasn’t just Westeros. She told Jon she intended to go on until she had conquered the entire known world, as far as the Jade Sea in eastern Essos. She was proposing never-ending war (since of course she would always be having to put down rebellions. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/171 "2019-05-26T16:52:26Z")
[A Vox essay](https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/26/18637091/game-of-thrones-targaryen-restoration-daenerys) on why KL had to burn, and why Queen Dany might have been better for Westeros than Bran. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/172 "2019-05-26T19:13:56Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > [A Vox essay](https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/26/18637091/game-of-thrones-targaryen-restoration-daenerys) on why KL had to burn, and why Queen Dany might have been better for Westeros than Bran. Some good points. Despite all the talk of “breaking the wheel,” the new system didn’t break it, it just made it more liable to become even more dysfunctional. However, Daenarys’s empire will be entirely dependent on her and her single dragon. It’s been suggested that she’s incapable of having children, but even if she is, if either she or Drogon is killed before her offspring becomes able to control Drogon her empire will fall apart just like Alexander the Great’s. She’s lost more than half the Unsullied, and no more are being made. Without Drogon she might be able to maintain her rule of terror by importing more Dothraki, but they would be difficult to control. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/173 "2019-05-26T22:03:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > On the other hand, I’m sure it is.🙂 > How about providing some examples of tyrants assassinated because of their brutality towards civilian populations, rather than because the assassins feared for their own skins? > [@storyteller0910](#): > > Well, I’d have to start with literally Daenerys Targaryen, Seriously. (!) The entire argument over this plot development (and judgment of the series as a whole, by extension) seems a bit feverish. The show runners made the decisions they made. To many of us, the decisions were not well-supported by anything previously established in the show, much less by common-sense observations of the way people behave. To others, the writing was superb. Any suggestions to the contrary will be greeted with elaborate but irrelevant defenses, demands for citations, and the odd personal insult. But the controversy will continue (elsewhere, at least, even if an end comes to it here). An interesting long article about the finale makes some sound points: > [@](#): > > Game of Thrones is a rare example of mass entertainment that took the time to build compelling character arcs over the course of several seasons. The redemption of Jaime or the Hound were slow, carefully plotted evolutions — until they weren’t. > > So Daenerys’ turn from hero to villain should have been a triumph of plot development. **If the showrunners wanted to argue that power corrupts everyone, carefully tracing Daenerys’ descent from Breaker of Chains to Mad Queen killed by her lover could have been a smart, honest, compelling storytelling choice.** > > Instead, the creators of the show decided to evolve Daenerys’ increasing paranoia over the course of just a few episodes, let her snap in a second and punish her for that misstep by having Jon murder her a mere episode later. > > … Daenerys, along with Tyrion and Jon, had spent years as the underdog — one of the “cripples, bastards and broken things” who could defy others’ expectations. In a world where women were often treated as disposable objects, Daenerys outwitted and overpowered her male enemies. As the sole protagonist in her own storyline, far from the rest of the characters, she was set up to be one of the few unambiguously heroic figures in the series. > > And then, in the penultimate episode of season 8, viewers saw her snap in just one shot. As explained by the showrunners in the post-episode breakdown, Daenerys saw the Red Keep, became enraged and made a decision to do what she’d never done before: Kill innocent civilians without reason. (My emphasis.) The sections about the bad advice Dany received, about Missendei becoming merely a plot device, and how Dany’s fight with Sansa is one of the plot developments that never really went anywhere, are worth a read, as is this point that I haven’t seen discussed elsewhere: > [@](#): > > _ **The show isolated her in Westeros and completely forgot about her allies in the East** _ > > In the last few episodes, Daenerys found herself envying the love that Jon’s people feel for him. … Why, exactly, the Northerners didn’t appreciate her dragons — without which they could not have defeated the Army of the Dead — was not totally clear. Daenerys rightfully glowered at Jon as his countrymen celebrate the fact that he mounted a dragon a couple of times when Dany has been riding one for years. > > … In a mission to make Dany feel as isolated as possible, the show killed off her closest advisors, Jorah and Missendei. But Dany was still loved — her people (and reinforcements) just lay elsewhere. Daario was controlling Slaver’s Bay in her absence. Yara Greyjoy was sworn to her. In theory, the new Prince of Dorne would have been allied with her since Daenerys struck a pact with Ellaria Sand. Daenerys could have called on any of these allies when she faced Cersei’s army but didn’t — simply because the show needed her to be alone when she made her dark decision. [Game of Thrones Finale: Daenerys Deserved a Better Ending | TIME](http://time.com/5590729/game-of-thrones-finale-daenerys/) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032/174 "2019-05-26T22:09:12Z")
Germans made multiple attempts to kill Hitler but none of them worked. One of the closest was the July 20 1944 plot that was the shown in the Tom Cruise movie Valkyrie. The bomb went off but it was not close enough to kill Hitler , 4 others were killed. [20 July plot - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_July_plot) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-redo-season-8-change-org-petition/834032.md?page=8)