# Game of Thrones S3 - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362 "2013-03-30T16:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/361 "2013-05-01T06:40:53Z")
I assume Tywin died before he could get around to teaching Joffery a sharp lesson. It would have been interesting to see if Tywin could have found a way to reign him in at some point and what he would have done once he discovered that Joff was a lost cause. TV Joffery seems a lot darker than Book Joffery, at least to me. Book Joffery was an asshole and a sadist, but TV Joffery seems a lot more twisted, although maybe that’s because they’ve given his perverted tendencies a sexual aspect. Book Joff always seemed asexual, or maybe just younger than TV Joff. ---
**Author:** ![Kuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Kuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kuru)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/362 "2013-05-01T09:36:58Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I assume Tywin died before he could get around to teaching Joffery a sharp lesson. Doesn’t Joffery die before Tywin? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/363 "2013-05-01T10:53:25Z")
> [@Kuru](#): > > Doesn’t Joffery die before Tywin? Yes. Tyrion kills Tywin after escaping from the cell he’s in because he’s been found guilty of Joffrey’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/364 "2013-05-01T11:00:35Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Yes. Tyrion kills Tywin after escaping from the cell he’s in because he’s been found guilty of Joffrey’s murder. Tywin was sitting on the privy at the time and faecal matter spread from his wounds. _That’s_ not television; it’s HBO. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/365 "2013-05-01T11:11:48Z")
I honestly don’t see, after watching since the beginning, any reason to watch further. Repetitious, pointless, spread across too broad a canvas, missing resolution of many plot points, etc. Who ever said the books were any good in the first place? LotR much more focused and enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/366 "2013-05-01T11:25:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Chapter 53 —The small council gets the news of the Red Wedding. Joffrey demands that the Freys send him Robb’s head and he says that he will make Sansa kiss it. > > Tywin lectures him about kingship and how when people yield to him, he must be gracious. Tywin uses Aerys as an example and Joffrey retorts by saying that Tywin was scared of Aerys. When told to apologize by Cersei, Joffrey instead accuses Tywin of cowardice. > > Tywin then instructs Kevan to take Joffrey to bed and suggests that Pycelle give him dreamwine. Tywin then rebukes Cersei for failing to raise Joffrey properly and dismisses her. > > Tyrion warns that Joffrey is becoming another Aerys and Tywin says that Joffrey is young and there is time to teach him. > > That’s when he says, as SecretaryofEvil reports, “He requires a sharp lesson.” I’ll have to reread that sometime, I don’t remember it. Why the heck did Joffrey submit to this, it seems counter to his petulance. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/367 "2013-05-01T11:33:08Z")
The dragon lady merely needed to wait for a few years before beginning her accumulation of assets, since the folks she wants to replace are killing each other off so fulsomely. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/368 "2013-05-01T11:42:48Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ll have to reread that sometime, I don’t remember it. Why the heck did Joffrey submit to this, it seems counter to his petulance. What was his choice at that point? Joffrey is a coward, and he is a threat only when there is someone in the room willing to carry out his threats. Cersei was afraid of Joffrey. Tywin isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/369 "2013-05-01T11:43:18Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > The dragon lady merely needed to wait for a few years before beginning her accumulation of assets, since the folks she wants to replace are killing each other off so fulsomely. You ought to call Martin and tell him your awesome idea for how to plot the story better. Have _The Dragon Lady_ sit and drink tea for a few years. _Brilliant_! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/370 "2013-05-01T11:43:26Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > I think he’s just playing it close to the vest. Jorah wasn’t being overly subtle, and I think Selmy wants to take his measure a bit before deciding whether to tell. And when he does, he sure as hell won’t be cluing in Jorah first. They planted the seeds of their conflict this episode - within the next two, he’ll probably get mad enough to drop the bomb. I think Ser Barristan, in his own decent way, was trying to give Jorah a chance to leave with his honor intact. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/371 "2013-05-01T11:49:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You ought to call Martin and tell him your awesome idea for how to plot the story better. Have _The Dragon Lady_ sit and drink tea for a few years. _Brilliant_! Isn’t that pretty much what she’s doing in the last couple books? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/372 "2013-05-01T11:55:50Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Isn’t that pretty much what she’s doing in the last couple books? Aside from all the stuff she does, sure. I understand why some people are upset at the last couple books. But I think Dany stumbling a bit before getting an army capable of overthrowing the Seven Kingdoms isn’t that unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/373 "2013-05-01T12:30:18Z")
> [@Kuru](#): > > Doesn’t Joffery die before Tywin? Sorry, my bad. Joffery dies before Tywin can teach him a lesson, then. I agree that Selmy was trying to give Jorah an out, or at least was gauging his reaction. What bothered me about Dany’s storyline in the recent books was that she just grew to be really annoying. Again, it’s been a while since I’ve read the books so I can’t remember why exactly, but I just remember being left with an overall impression that she’d gone from badass to lame. Maybe I’ll re-read them and change my mind, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/374 "2013-05-01T14:18:27Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > What bothered me about Dany’s storyline in the recent books was that she just grew to be really annoying. Again, it’s been a while since I’ve read the books so I can’t remember why exactly, but I just remember being left with an overall impression that she’d gone from badass to lame. Maybe I’ll re-read them and change my mind, though. She did become lame in the last book. That’s because she did not do anything except complain about how immoral everyone was. She received countless advice from her advisers to take action, but instead she decided to stay and “rule” the city. In book one she stood up to her brother and Drogo’s commanders. Badass. In book two she wondered around. Lame. In book three she stood up to the slave owners and conquered cities. Badass. Book five, she complained about how she was being screwed over. Lame. This happens a lot to female characters. Action builds character. Writers like to show females as the moral voice of their story, but forget to have female characters do anything in accordance with their beliefs. Think Andrea and Lori from The Walking Dead. Skylar on Breaking Bad. Betty on Mad Men. They complain a lot, but they never actually do anything to solve their problems. It seems like Dany takes action every other book that she’s in. If the pattern continues we’ll get our badass Dany back for the next book. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/375 "2013-05-01T15:31:38Z")
I am anxious to see her reaction to Victarion and his Dragon Horn. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/376 "2013-05-01T15:34:30Z")
[deleted double post] ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/377 "2013-05-01T16:05:02Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I honestly don’t see, after watching since the beginning, any reason to watch further. Repetitious, pointless, spread across too broad a canvas, missing resolution of many plot points, etc. Who ever said the books were any good in the first place? LotR much more focused and enjoyable. Meh there’s no accounting for taste, but I’ve always found the LOTR series highly overrated. The obvious complaints about the plot (Tom Bombadil, the eagles) have been rehashed a hundred times on this board alone. I found many of the characters flat and the tone somewhat childish. Getting through many parts of the LOTR books was a slog for me, like traversing knee high mud. In comparison, I found ASOIF to be real page turners. I couldn’t put the books down because I was dying to learn what happened next. I actually found the epic myth nature of the Silmarillion much more enjoyable than LOTR. The details of the plot and setting of the LOTR films is hard to follow if you haven’t read the books. Sure one can grasp who the good guys are, who the bad guys are, and that there’s a magic ring, but the characters and locations are often thrown at the viewer rather haphazardly. Honestly the special effects were the best part of those movies. I will concede that Theoden’s “DEATH!” speech was pretty boss. I might poke a bit of fun at Martin for repeating himself or having certain little noticeable quirks to his writing style, but I very much enjoyed ASOIF, even the last two books. My only genuine criticism is that the last two books could have both been trimmed by about 200 pages. AFFC only really needed about half as many Brienne POVs as it had, and the Martell prince in ADWD didn’t need his own POV at all. I think most ASOIF fans are far more frustrated by the length of time it took Martin to complete the last two books than by flaws with the books themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/378 "2013-05-01T17:14:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Aside from all the stuff she does, sure. > > I understand why some people are upset at the last couple books. But I think Dany stumbling a bit before getting an army capable of overthrowing the Seven Kingdoms isn’t that unrealistic. It’s maybe not unrealistic, but it makes for a dull storyline IMO. Pretty much all she does in the last couple books is sit around in her pyramid, lust after what’s-his-name, and throw 2 of her dragons in a pit because they ate a kid. Granted, the last bit where she flies off and ends up with the Dothrakis definitely is a big upswing, but aside from that, as far as I’m concerned everything between her sacking Mereen and the scenes where she flies off could have been deleted. And I say that as someone who thinks that Dany is one of the most interesting characters in the books… except for the dull parts. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/379 "2013-05-01T17:17:54Z")
The last book would have been at the same level as storm of swords if they had cut out a shit ton of filler and fit in the battles of fire and ice instead. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/380 "2013-05-01T23:32:53Z")
Nice to finally get some boobage (yay Ygritte) after the last several eps having such a lack, but did they have to balance it out with so much damn man ass? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=20)