# Game of Thrones S3 - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362 "2013-03-30T16:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/521 "2013-05-13T22:53:54Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why is its’ not being gibberish evidence for her being a spy? It’s not that it’s not gibberish, it’s that the blog dedicated to translations of the other languages in the show said they couldn’t tell us what it said until the end of the season. That pretty much outs her as a spy, if it was just a letter to her mom there would be no problem translating it. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/522 "2013-05-13T22:58:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Because if it means something and they won’t say what it is, it implies the message is a plot relevant. A letter to her mother would not be plot relevant. I must have missed something in the scene. Did she refuse to say what she was writing or something? I thought she’d only gotten down like a single word or two. ETA: Oh I see, the blog says they’re not allowed to tell us or something? Somehow I missed that but I probably skimmed a bit. Got twins running around. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/523 "2013-05-13T22:59:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not that it’s not gibberish, it’s that the blog dedicated to translations of the other languages in the show said they couldn’t tell us what it said until the end of the season. That pretty much outs her as a spy, if it was just a letter to her mom there would be no problem translating it. The problem is that then people would know she’s not a spy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/524 "2013-05-13T22:59:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not that it’s not gibberish, it’s that the blog dedicated to translations of the other languages in the show said they couldn’t tell us what it said until the end of the season. That pretty much outs her as a spy, if it was just a letter to her mom there would be no problem translating it. I don’t think it’s definitive- either way reveals something. The legitimacy of the character is in question- that letter would resolve it- so it makes sense, either way, that it would be kept hidden. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/525 "2013-05-14T02:01:48Z")
I am both looking forward to and dreading next week’s episode. I was thinking about the “is Talissa a spy” question last night and for some reason it reminded me of how little the wolves appear in the series. In the books, Grey Wind is a good indicator for who is trustworthy or not. I suppose it would be way too obvious if they had Grey Wind growling at Talissa all season, but still - I miss the wolves. I wish they would stop showing the Theon scenes. We get it, the Bolton bastard is a complete psycho nutcase. Now please stop. Will Barristan out Jorah by the end of this season or will it drag on for longer? I guess if they want to keep Jorah on screen they’ll have to wait until Tyrion leaves King’s Landing for Jorah to be cast out of Dany’s retinue. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/526 "2013-05-14T02:55:22Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > No, IIRC, we get the torture all after-the-fact in POV chapters from a character named Reek who is very transparently Theon. Personally, I found both the book’s and show’s approach tedious. Me too. If the plot suddenly took a left turn from the books and Theon were killed, I’d be delighted. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/527 "2013-05-14T03:01:13Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > No, IIRC, we get the torture all after-the-fact in POV chapters from a character named Reek who is very transparently Theon. I don’t think we were meant to be in the dark about Reek’s identity for long. It was a stylistic choice to show how much his torture had changed him, but it wasn’t a big twist of a reveal. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/528 "2013-05-14T14:13:04Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I don’t think we were meant to be in the dark about Reek’s identity for long. It was a stylistic choice to show how much his torture had changed him, but it wasn’t a big twist of a reveal. While I admit I am not as astute of a reader as others, the reveal was a surprise to me. It was not transparent to me that Reek was Theon. But then again, I never really tried to figure it out. I just got swept up in the story-line. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/529 "2013-05-14T15:12:36Z")
**Meatros** posted the following comment in the no-spoilers thread : [QUOTE=Meatros] I’ve come to the conclusion that no one is allowed to be happy. Rob and Talisa are simply too happy to be alive for much longer. I’m beginning to think the same for John Snow and the wild woman (igret?). [/QUOTE] I had never thought about it that way. And besides the specific examples he was refering to, he seems to be right on the money. Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/530 "2013-05-14T15:20:19Z")
As far as “is Talisa a spy?”, it’s obvious the writers put certain things into the scripts so that viewers would at least start to suspect that she is. So the question is this: Did the writers put the suspicions things (like “jokes” about her being a spy, writing letters, etc) in the scripts as a red herring, or because she really is a spy? ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/531 "2013-05-14T15:42:49Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > **Meatros** I had never thought about it that way. And besides the specific examples he was refering to, he seems to be right on the money. Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. Bronn? His wife is a fat dimwit, but otherwise he seems to be [understatement]doing rather well for someone who started out as a sell sword.[/understatement] > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As far as “is Talisa a spy?”, it’s obvious the writers put certain things into the scripts so that viewers would at least start to suspect that she is. So the question is this: Did the writers put the suspicions things (like “jokes” about her being a spy, writing letters, etc) in the scripts as a red herring, or because she really is a spy? I have a feeling she might just be what she says she is, and the hints she is a spy are just as you say, a red herring. The reason they let us know she is pregnant might be that they intend to kill her as well at the Red Wedding, to increase the impact. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/532 "2013-05-14T16:50:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > **Meatros** posted the following comment in the no-spoilers thread : > > I had never thought about it that way. And besides the specific examples he was refering to, he seems to be right on the money. Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. I think Melisandre might be the happiest character, weirdly enough. I wouldn’t call her content, insofar as she’s very invested in striving for Stannis to come through, but she is happy with her role and pretty successful in it. She has utter faith that she’s doing the right thing and that her side will win. She has some tremendous mojo as well as foreknowledge, and possibly the ability to bring people back from the dead. In her way she has as much power as Dany, but without the pesky moral reservations and nuanced thinking about ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/533 "2013-05-14T17:00:17Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? It’s not really Martin’s way :). Generally happiness comes only at the end of his books and for a few select characters. No primary characters are all that happy and in terms of supporting cast I’d agree that Bronn is probably closest you can find to a consistently non-miserable character throughout the series so far. Even then he is less suffused with joy than enjoying the contentment of a generally steadily rising level of prosperity and station. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/534 "2013-05-14T18:08:18Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. Hodor. (wow, two in one day… 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/535 "2013-05-14T18:56:21Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > **Meatros** posted the following comment in the no-spoilers thread : > > I had never thought about it that way. And besides the specific examples he was refering to, he seems to be right on the money. Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. “Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaario.” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/536 "2013-05-14T19:45:58Z")
Open warfare tends to make everyone spectacularly unhappy, except the folks who make money off of it. Illyrio seems to be quite happy, and has been for a while. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/537 "2013-05-15T08:49:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Is there someone, at any point in the books, who has been “allowed to be happy” for some lenght of time? I can’t remember an example, even amongst secondary or tertiary characters, but maybe someone will. Varys? OK he lost his man bits but since then he has made himself a very powerful man and there is little doubt he loves playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/538 "2013-05-15T11:08:30Z")
> [@Reverse](#): > > She got pregnant, but her mother was giving her morning after tea disguised as fertility medicine. I don’t know whether that was an abortifacent or merely a contraceptive. > [@](#): > > There’s a debunked theory that there’s been some sort of switcheroo and she’s hidden somewhere, still pregnant. The theory is based on one character describing her having good child-bearing hips while another describes her as being very narrow, but the Gurm has admitted to that being an honest mistake and him getting the description wrong. Hmm. Interesting. > [@clairobscur](#): > > Indeed. And often more interesting too. The latest example would be the necro-maester I forgot the name of. He’s barely noticeable in the books, while here he’s already a full fledged character you want to know more about after only two scenes. Qyburn? What confuses me is that in the books, he’s obviously sinister; whereas, in the show he seems like a nice old man. > [@Frylock](#): > > Were the two female participants in Theon’s torture also in the books? If so, who are they? > [@clairobscur](#): > > Those scenes don’t appear in the books, where we see Theon again only after he has been thoroughly tortured into submission. How these tortures went on exactly isn’t detailled, so the two women don’t appear. And from the book descriptions of Ramsay’s attitude towards women, I wouldn’t expect him to have _willing_ women as accomplices. > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I wish they would stop showing the Theon scenes. We get it, the Bolton bastard is a complete psycho nutcase. Now please stop. Ugh. Yes. I now agree that the only reason for these scenes is to keep the actor in the cast. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/539 "2013-05-15T11:18:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Qyburn? What confuses me is that in the books, he’s obviously sinister; whereas, in the show he seems like a nice old man. In the books he’s described as having the appearance and demeanor of a child’s favorite grandfather. The show has already started to reveal his true nature, something of a cross between Frankenstein and Mengele. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/540 "2013-05-15T12:19:31Z")
I wondered where I’d seen Qyburn before. He’s played by Anton Lesser, last seen in series 1 of the BBC’s _The Hour_ (cruelly cancelled after only two series). He played Clarence Fendley, BBC official & backer of the innovative (for 1956) news program. Always well dressed, mild mannered & wearing nerdish eyeglasses, he revealed himself as a Soviet spy in the last episode. So, definitely a guy with hidden depths. Oona Chaplin (Talisa) also had a role in _The Hour_. (Her full name is [Oona Castilla Chaplin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oona_Castilla_Chaplin); born in Madrid, she’s played in Spanish-language films.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=28)