# Game of Thrones S3 - open spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362 "2013-03-30T16:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/881 "2013-06-12T17:52:02Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Yes he was definitely depressed and suicidal, but that is different than “unhinged”. Again, I have to disagree. Maybe if you just consider Tyrion’s actions once he has crossed the Narrow Sea, he’s just depressed and suicidal. However, he did also strangle his lover with a gold chain and shoot his dad with a crossbow. That was far from Tyrion’s normal behavior, so it sounds a lot like he became unhinged to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/882 "2013-06-12T18:36:08Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > True, in the books. Not in the show. The battle between Amory Lorch’s men and the Night’s Watch recruits was quite a disappointment in the show. Granted, I could be conflating events in the book with those in the show. It’s getting hard to keep it all separated. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/883 "2013-06-12T23:48:36Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > She does mention the band, but she doesn’t say what you said she did. At the very start of the feats scene she’s leaning over to the guy next to her and says “They’re good, aren’t they,” clearly enjoying herself. What Sam Stone said below: > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Granted, I could be conflating events in the book with those in the show. It’s getting hard to keep it all separated. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m confused about the notion of the Frey soldier being Arya’s ‘first kill’. Hasn’t she killed at least two other people already? There was the stableboy she stabbed with Needle when escaping King’s landing, and later on the journey didn’t she kill at least one of the soldiers in the fight where Yoren of the Night’s Watch was killed? I think it may have been more than one. And later, she dispatched one of Roose Bolton’s guards when they escaped Harrenhal. In the show it was the shapeshifter from Braavos that did all the work, they just sneaked out of Dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/884 "2013-06-13T19:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > However, he did also strangle his lover with a gold chain and shoot his dad with a crossbow. That was far from Tyrion’s normal behavior, so it sounds a lot like he became unhinged to me. Is it possible to kill people and stay within one’s “normal behavior”? Tyrion was wronged, he got his revenge. He was angry, sure, but not crazy. His depression was more a result of the realization that his first marriage was real and what his father did to him than a reaction to his murders. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/885 "2013-06-14T05:39:17Z")
Are they going into AFFC and ADWD next season? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/886 "2013-06-14T11:31:47Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Are they going into AFFC and ADWD next season? They’ve already gone into ADWD story lines as far as Theon goes. The second half of A Storm of Swords has quite a lot going on. I think Stannis at the Wall, Tyion killing Tywin, and Littlefinger killing Lysa are all good events to have in the last couple episodes. I suppose they could have Theon go take Moat Cailin or move Dany along (where though? nothing happens in Mereen), but most of the other story lines would be constrained by the previously mentioned events. If they weren’t having Asha run off to save Theon, I would think that Balon’s death could happen in episode 2 or 3 and then introduce Euron and Victarion, but I’m guessing that isn’t likely. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/887 "2013-06-14T13:11:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Are they going into AFFC and ADWD next season? They might have to for Arya, right? All she has left is to leave the Hound and get on a boat. She also gets needle back, which will be pretty cool. They might be able to stretch out her adventures with the Hound for an entire season by adding a few scenes not in the book. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Arya and the Hound. The real question is who has needle in the TV show? Polliver had it in the book, but I don’t remember seeing Polliver in the show. And the Tickler is already dead in the show, so we won’t see her stab him multiple times repeating the questions he asked his captives while he tortured them. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/888 "2013-06-14T13:32:59Z")
Polliver has it in the show. Bran can do his whole adwd storyline too I guess. I just hope they get back season 1 mountain. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/889 "2013-06-14T15:09:33Z")
She can say those lines to Polliver, if they want to include the nod. He was present and complicit in the torture, so it still works just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/890 "2013-06-14T15:34:57Z")
The wedding, trial of Tyrion, Sansa’s escape, battle between Gregor and the Red Viper, Jon Snow defends the wall against the wildlings, gets elected Lord Cmdr, Daenarys takes Meereen – should be an epic season 4. I’m very curious to see if season 5 will experience the same fan backlash as book 4 received since it introduced so many new characters and locations. Brienne’s fruitless journey will hopefully be cut down to parts of 1-2 episodes. But I thought the Iron Islands stuff and especially the Dorne drama was quite good, it just wasn’t familiar, like we had grown accustomed to with the focus on Stark and Lannister in the first 3 books. Cersei’s insane leadership in King’s Landing and Jaime’s siege of Riverrun were excellent in book 4 and I think they’ll be great on screen in season 5. Arya’s stuff was just OK but I think they will make it work better on screen than in the book, especially when she gets involved people’s lives that go beyond her “training”. Many of the things mentioned in her lists of new things she’s learned could be expanded into great stories, shifting the focus to Arya’s personal growth instead of just the training. In the book, I think we were supposed to get the idea that Arya’s submission to the house of B&W is not as complete as it seems, but on the screen they’ll make it more obvious by focusing on her extracurriculars. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/891 "2013-06-14T17:54:14Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Is it possible to kill people and stay within one’s “normal behavior”? Certainly, especially in fiction. It just depends on a character’s baseline for normal. It would be perfectly normal for the Gregor Clegane’s of the world. Tyrion acts completely contrary to his baseline when he murders Tywin and Shae, thus me using words like “unhinged” and “snapped”. _shrug_ Regardless, I was expressing my opinion that the series should leave Tyrion as Shae’s killer. By having Tywin kill Shae, it changes Tyrion’s character. Instead of someone who has been pushed beyond the breaking point, he becomes even more of a “good guy” by killing the much-disliked Tywin. It would take away from the story of how much Tyrion has gone through and his (possible) redemption. In other words, don’t pussify the story because some TV series fans would probably prefer Tyrion to be a baby-face good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/892 "2013-06-14T18:42:56Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Regardless, I was expressing my opinion that the series should leave Tyrion as Shae’s killer. By having Tywin kill Shae, it changes Tyrion’s character. Instead of someone who has been pushed beyond the breaking point, he becomes even more of a “good guy” by killing the much-disliked Tywin. It would take away from the story of how much Tyrion has gone through and his (possible) redemption. Shae already has been changed significantly in the show. She is a much more sympathetic character, and having Tyrion kill her will have a different effect on the story than him killing Shae in the book, who very clearly betrayed Tyrion out of self interest. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/893 "2013-06-14T21:19:32Z")
> [@Enilno](#): > > Shae already has been changed significantly in the show. She is a much more sympathetic character, and having Tyrion kill her will have a different effect on the story than him killing Shae in the book, who very clearly betrayed Tyrion out of self interest. Except that if Shae shows up in Tywin’s bed, that will change everything we know about her character quite a bit, or at the very least put it in a different light. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/894 "2013-06-14T22:33:34Z")
Well, first of all, I have to draw a distinction between self-interest and self-defense. Shae is trying to survive, not just looking for a sweeter sugar-daddy. Also, I think that the deepening of the relationship from Tyrion’s perspective makes him more likely to remain a sympathetic character after killing her. It kinda goes from “Oh! Well, she was a whore, and he kept trying to remind himself of that” to “OMG!! Shae did WHAT?!?” Book Shae is killed for being exactly what she always admitted to being, which kinda sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/895 "2013-06-15T03:08:27Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > …I was expressing my opinion that the series should leave Tyrion as Shae’s killer. By having Tywin kill Shae, it changes Tyrion’s character. Instead of someone who has been pushed beyond the breaking point, he becomes even more of a “good guy” by killing the much-disliked Tywin. It would take away from the story of how much Tyrion has gone through and his (possible) redemption. > > In other words, don’t pussify the story because some TV series fans would probably prefer Tyrion to be a baby-face good guy. Well said. I could not agree more. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/896 "2013-07-10T19:35:34Z")
An interesting graphic of the[Iron Throne as Martin envisions it](http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-this-is-what-the-iron-throne-really-721293015). (I started to post this in one of the other threads, but while there’s no way anything in the article could give away anything significant about the book other than it describes the Iron Throne differently I’d lay 18:1 odds somebody would get their arse on their shoulders and squawk like an electrocuted swan having convulsions over it being a spoiler that prevents them from ever enjoying the show, achieving an orgasm, sleeping peacefully, or being able to love their children ever again.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/897 "2013-07-11T03:19:54Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > An interesting graphic of the[Iron Throne as Martin envisions it](http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-this-is-what-the-iron-throne-really-721293015). > > (I started to post this in one of the other threads, but while there’s no way anything in the article could give away anything significant about the book other than it describes the Iron Throne differently I’d lay 18:1 odds somebody would get their arse on their shoulders and squawk like an electrocuted swan having convulsions over it being a spoiler that prevents them from ever enjoying the show, achieving an orgasm, sleeping peacefully, or being able to love their children ever again.) Day-um, that’s freaken HUGE!:eek: (But of course, you’re right about The Unsullied) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/898 "2013-07-11T13:07:27Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > An interesting graphic of the[Iron Throne as Martin envisions it](http://io9.com/george-r-r-martin-this-is-what-the-iron-throne-really-721293015). > > (I started to post this in one of the other threads, but while there’s no way anything in the article could give away anything significant about the book other than it describes the Iron Throne differently I’d lay 18:1 odds somebody would get their arse on their shoulders and squawk like an electrocuted swan having convulsions over it being a spoiler that prevents them from ever enjoying the show, achieving an orgasm, sleeping peacefully, or being able to love their children ever again.) Or maybe they get upset because its against the extremely simple rules that people continue to think don’t apply to them. The whole point of those rules is not to prevent things like this, but to prevent thousands of different people making individual judgements on what’s acceptable or not. And it has actually majorly cut down on the bitching we had before. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/899 "2013-07-11T14:18:21Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Or maybe they get upset because its against the extremely simple rules that people continue to think don’t apply to them. The whole point of those rules is not to prevent things like this, but to prevent thousands of different people making individual judgements on what’s acceptable or not. And it has actually majorly cut down on the bitching we had before. _Thousands_? That must be the estimate of message board users as Martin envisions it. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362/900 "2013-07-11T15:18:30Z")
I agree with Martin about the throne - he’s always referring to people cutting themselves on it, namely the Mad King, Aerys. The throne as envisioned by HBO is cool and all, but doesn’t really look dangerous - I can’t really see anyone cutting themselves on it. I don’t know if I agree with the huge one in the paintings, but it’s closer to my imagining. Hee - good one on the Unsullied, **Sampiro**. They do get their panties in a twist, don’t they? Someone last year said something like, “I thought the floor would be more sloped” about the prisons at the Eyrie and people totally went off. “You can’t say that!” Oy. I get it, I really do, but I generally just read those threads now - I avoid posting because they can’t handle even the most innocuous stuff that has absolutely no bearing on anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s3-open-spoilers/654362.md?page=46)