# Game Of Thrones S4 \[MAJOR BOOK SPOILERS!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923 "2014-03-30T19:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/1 "2014-03-30T19:36:07Z")
_Game Of Thrones_ season 4 is about to start. It is based on the second half of _A Storm of Swords_ (book 3). I have read book 4, _A Feast For Crows_, but it’s been a couple of years. **PLEASE BOX YOUR SPOILERS!** Also, please indicate from which book your spoilers come. I will ask a question about the Season 4 television show, which starts on 6 April, in my next post. It will ask about significant developments that I know are coming, but which other people might not want to know. Let’s please conduct this thread such that people who have not read through Book 4 (because I’m not sure when the developments happen) will not have their enjoyment spoiled. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/2 "2014-03-30T19:41:23Z")
**WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD!** This question concerns three major characters. [spoiler]Really. If you don’t want to know, turn around right here. The question is in the next box. [spoiler]Is it likely that three significant characters will be killed this television season? **NAMES FOLLOW!** Specifically, will this season see the ends of Joffrey, Tywinn, and Shae? (Or is it likely to?)[/spoiler][/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/3 "2014-03-30T19:49:55Z")
I don’t see how this can be escaped. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/4 "2014-03-30T19:50:00Z")
The first one, almost certainly, and early in the season I would think. The other two don’t come for a while yet, do they? As for your “Identify the book” requirement, some of us read these quite some time ago; I doubt we’ll be able to be that scholarly about it. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/5 "2014-03-30T20:37:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > **WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD!** > > This question concerns three major characters. > > [spoiler]Really. If you don’t want to know, turn around right here. The question is in the next box. > > [spoiler]Is it likely that three significant characters will be killed this television season? **NAMES FOLLOW!** > > Specifically, will this season see the ends of Joffrey, Tywinn, and Shae? (Or is it likely to?)[/spoiler][/spoiler] I’d say certainly yes for all. A lot of season 4 will be \*A Feast for Crows \*I think, as most of \*Storm of Swords \*has already been covered. Joffrey’s wedding and death occur on New Year’s day of year 300. Tyrion’s trial happens two weeks later, followed by his escape (and killing of Shae and Tywin) sometime toward the end of that month. In the book Jaime arrives back in Kings Landing two days after Joffrey’s death, but in the show he’s already back so the timings are a little different. In any event the title of episode two - “The Lion and the Rose” seems likely to allude to Joffrey’s wedding, so I’m guessing Joffrey buys it at the end of episode 2 with Tyrion escaping maybe in episode 6 or so? All timings from this [comprehensive timeline -](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8)which goes right to the end of _A Dance with Dragons_ so use at your own risk. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/6 "2014-03-30T20:45:48Z")
Here are the episode titles for season 4. Care to speculate what major events the titles might be referring to in each episode? (Not spoilered because I really don’t think anything is revealed by these titles that would count as spoilers for book 4) 1. Two Swords 2. The Lion and The Rose 3. Breaker of Chains 4. Oathkeeper 5. First of His Name 6. The Laws of Gods and Men 7. Mockingbird 8. The Mountain and The Viper 9. The Watchers on the Wall 10. The Children My guesses: [spoiler] 1. Two Swords - Refers to Tywin remaking Ice into the two swords for Joffrey and Jaime, Widow’s Wail and Oathkeeper 2. The Lion and The Rose - The Purple Wedding? Too early for that, maybe? 3. Breaker of Chains - Gotta be about Dany; at Yunkai? 4. Oathkeeper - Could refer to a few things; Jaime giving Oathkeeper to Brienne, Jaime himself rejecting Cersei and the offer to be heir to Casterly Rock in favor of his Kingsguard oath, etc. Not sure, as some of the later titles make some of these possibilities seem out of sync, but then lots of things in the show are out of sync with the books… 5. First of His Name - If the Purple Wedding wasn’t in ep 2, then maybe here, and Joffrey Baratheon, first of his name, gets his? 6. The Laws of Gods and Men - Tyrion accused of murdering Joffrey? Brienne accused of killing Renly? 7. Mockingbird - Gotta be about Petyr Baelish, probably killing Lysa after she reveals that he had Jon Arryn killed. 8. The Mountain and The Viper - Tyrion’s trial by combat; maybe Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae? 9. The Watchers on the Wall - Has to be the big battle at Castle Black 10. The Children - Maybe something having to do with Bran and Rickon and Arya? Or maybe it’s about Dany’s “children,” the dragons?[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/7 "2014-03-30T21:03:13Z")
Episode two is about exactly what you speculated. This was confirmed an interview with the main actor in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/8 "2014-03-30T21:05:12Z")
And hopefully at least one will be a musical spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/9 "2014-03-30T21:14:34Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I don’t see how this can be escaped. That’s what I thought; but as has been noted, the timing between the books and the show can be variable. Thanks, All. ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/10 "2014-03-30T22:10:23Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Here are the episode titles for season 4. Care to speculate what major events the titles might be referring to in each episode? (Not spoilered because I really don’t think anything is revealed by these titles that would count as spoilers for book 4) > > 1. Two Swords > 2. The Lion and The Rose > 3. Breaker of Chains > 4. Oathkeeper > 5. First of His Name > 6. The Laws of Gods and Men > 7. Mockingbird > 8. The Mountain and The Viper > 9. The Watchers on the Wall > 10. The Children > > My guesses: > > [spoiler] > > 1. Two Swords - Refers to Tywin remaking Ice into the two swords for Joffrey and Jaime, Widow’s Wail and Oathkeeper > 2. The Lion and The Rose - The Purple Wedding? Too early for that, maybe? > 3. Breaker of Chains - Gotta be about Dany; at Yunkai? > 4. Oathkeeper - Could refer to a few things; Jaime giving Oathkeeper to Brienne, Jaime himself rejecting Cersei and the offer to be heir to Casterly Rock in favor of his Kingsguard oath, etc. Not sure, as some of the later titles make some of these possibilities seem out of sync, but then lots of things in the show are out of sync with the books… > 5. First of His Name - If the Purple Wedding wasn’t in ep 2, then maybe here, and Joffrey Baratheon, first of his name, gets his? > 6. The Laws of Gods and Men - Tyrion accused of murdering Joffrey? Brienne accused of killing Renly? > 7. Mockingbird - Gotta be about Petyr Baelish, probably killing Lysa after she reveals that he had Jon Arryn killed. > 8. The Mountain and The Viper - Tyrion’s trial by combat; maybe Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae? > 9. The Watchers on the Wall - Has to be the big battle at Castle Black > 10. The Children - Maybe something having to do with Bran and Rickon and Arya? Or maybe it’s about Dany’s “children,” the dragons?[/spoiler] I have one guess: 1. First of His Name – Refers to Tommen ascending to the Iron Throne ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/11 "2014-03-30T23:19:23Z")
Seems as if after this season, as far as books are concerned we’re heading into major boring territory. The only story with any drama is Cercei’s.. Don’t know if that really deserves a spoiler box but I was feeling left out. ---
**Author:** ![chinchalinchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@chinchalinchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinchalinchin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/12 "2014-03-30T23:31:25Z")
I wouldn’t really consider Book 4 and 5 boring per se, just wordy. Among other things, Martin loves to describe food (for obvious reasons, if you’ve ever seen a picture of him. Don’t worry; I’m fat, so I can make fun of other fat people.) I think the television show will have to pare down a lot of the unnecessary description by virtue of the medium, resulting in a much cleaner story. Could be totally wrong though and the subsequent seasons could blow chunks. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/13 "2014-03-31T00:05:37Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Don’t know if that really deserves a spoiler box but I was feeling left out. Maybe. I wouldn’t want anything in that storyline spoiled. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/14 "2014-03-31T00:08:29Z")
> [@chinchalinchin](#): > > I wouldn’t really consider Book 4 and 5 boring per se, just wordy. Among other things, Martin loves to describe food (for obvious reasons, if you’ve ever seen a picture of him. Don’t worry; I’m fat, so I can make fun of other fat people.) I think the television show will have to pare down a lot of the unnecessary description by virtue of the medium, resulting in a much cleaner story. I’ve just started the 5th book. He does dwell on it; but I think he might be ham-handedly juxtaposing those with food with those without. The thing about TV is that ‘a picture is worth a thousand words’. So they can show what Martin is describing without taking the time to describe it. BTW: Does anyone think of Mork from Ork when they think of Martin’s name? Ar! Ar! ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/15 "2014-03-31T00:23:42Z")
I am really really curious how they are going to handle (spoilers for third book regarding Tyrion and Shae) Shae’s betrayal of Tyrion. In the book it’s very obvious she is a materialistic bitch who’s only out for number one, but they’ve made her more of a decent person in the TV series. I’m assuming that the season’s last episode (spoilers for third book) will show Tywin’s death at the hands of Tyrion. I’m surprised that Joff’s wedding is so early on in the season. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/16 "2014-03-31T01:19:19Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I’m assuming that the season’s last episode (spoilers for third book) > > will show Tywin’s death at the hands of Tyrion. I’m surprised that Joff’s wedding is so early on in the season. That’s surprising to me, too. When you’ve got such a well-hated character like Joffrey, you’d think he’d be around as long as possible to create tension and drama. But, then again, it’s not like there is a shortage of dastards and bastards in Westeros to take his place. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/17 "2014-03-31T01:26:06Z")
Apparently the actor playing Gregor Clegane has changed again; this will be the third actor to have portrayed him. I wonder if Wilko Johnson will be resuming the role of Ilyn Payne. The actor/singer was diagnosed with terminal cancer and told he would die within a few months, but his “expiration date” came and went several months ago and he’s still making singing appearances, so perhaps he’ll be well enough to come back on board. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/18 "2014-03-31T09:43:25Z")
They may have the option to start including book 6 material in future seasons before the book comes out. The writers are in the loop for future events, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Martin was giving them access to some finished chapters that aren’t available to the general public. They were already including book 5 material in season 3, so there’s no reason season 5 can’t be a mix of material from books 4, 5 and 6. ---
**Author:** ![Alba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/19 "2014-03-31T09:55:00Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Here are the episode titles for season 4. > > My guesses: > > [spoiler] > > 1. Two Swords - Refers to Tywin remaking Ice into the two swords for Joffrey and Jaime, Widow’s Wail and Oathkeeper > 2. The Lion and The Rose - The Purple Wedding? Too early for that, maybe? > 3. Breaker of Chains - Gotta be about Dany; at Yunkai? > 4. Oathkeeper - Could refer to a few things; Jaime giving Oathkeeper to Brienne, Jaime himself rejecting Cersei and the offer to be heir to Casterly Rock in favor of his Kingsguard oath, etc. Not sure, as some of the later titles make some of these possibilities seem out of sync, but then lots of things in the show are out of sync with the books… > 5. First of His Name - If the Purple Wedding wasn’t in ep 2, then maybe here, and Joffrey Baratheon, first of his name, gets his? > 6. The Laws of Gods and Men - Tyrion accused of murdering Joffrey? Brienne accused of killing Renly? > 7. Mockingbird - Gotta be about Petyr Baelish, probably killing Lysa after she reveals that he had Jon Arryn killed. > 8. The Mountain and The Viper - Tyrion’s trial by combat; maybe Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae? > 9. The Watchers on the Wall - Has to be the big battle at Castle Black > 10. The Children - Maybe something having to do with Bran and Rickon and Arya? Or maybe it’s about Dany’s “children,” the dragons?[/spoiler] My guess for episode 10: 1. The Children refers to Bran meeting up with the Children of the forest in the cave. I don’t know if it’s too early for that? ---
**Author:** ![Alba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923/20 "2014-03-31T10:00:28Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I am really really curious how they are going to handle (spoilers for third book regarding Tyrion and Shae) > > Shae’s betrayal of Tyrion. In the book it’s very obvious she is a materialistic bitch who’s only out for number one, but they’ve made her more of a decent person in the TV series. [spoiler] I agree that there’s a big difference in the portrayal of the characters, but what bothered me in the book is that it is not clear if Tywin forced her into his bed or that she joined his bed for the coins. I always felt Tyrion killed her a bit too soon without asking why. But I might be misremembering. [/spoiler] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-s4-major-book-spoilers/684923.md?page=2)