# Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008 "2012-03-28T01:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/221 "2012-04-30T18:23:05Z")
My issue with Melisandre in the book and the show is that she and her god kinda came out of nowhere. I guess the same could be said for any character or plot line – they have to be introduced **somehow**. But a religion/god/priestess that powerful – shouldn’t someone have known about it, heard some stories? When Bran starts speaking through the trees (or whatever he does, my memory is faulty) and when it becomes obvious that he’s in his wolf’s body, we’ll have some basis for that. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/222 "2012-04-30T18:32:11Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > But a religion/god/priestess that powerful – shouldn’t someone have known about it, heard some stories? People didn’t know about it because the magic only started working when the dragons came back. Part of the conversation between Tyrion and Pyromancer guy in the books mentions how all of the sudden their wildfire is a lot more powerful and they are able to make more of it. There was another red priest who was basically a drunk slob minor character in the first book that all of the sudden also starts showing magical abilities. The blue lipped guys from Quarth were seen as jokes before, but have real power now. It is harder to establish in the show because so so so much background and minor character stuff is skipped, but there is a theme of “magic is coming back” as the series progresses. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/223 "2012-04-30T19:25:11Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > My issue with Melisandre in the book and the show is that she and her god kinda came out of nowhere. I guess the same could be said for any character or plot line – they have to be introduced **somehow**. But a religion/god/priestess that powerful – shouldn’t someone have known about it, heard some stories? Oddly enough, I have less of an issue with Melisandre and her magic than I do with Jaqen H’ghar and (I assume) an entire organization of mighty morphin’ shapeshifting ninjas. How is that supposed to work? Is his ability not magic at all, or is it magic that suddenly started working again? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/224 "2012-04-30T19:42:44Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > People didn’t know about it because the magic only started working when the dragons came back. I wish there was a way to make this more clear in the show. It would add to the tension, and make the dragons even more special. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/225 "2012-04-30T23:34:58Z")
I’m a little confused with the scenes north of The Wall. Where are all the trees? I thought the Fist of the First Men was in a forest. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/226 "2012-05-01T00:18:31Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I wish there was a way to make this more clear in the show. It would add to the tension, and make the dragons even more special. Definitely. It’s a transformative event in more ways than one. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/227 "2012-05-01T01:32:23Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > I’m a little confused with the scenes north of The Wall. Where are all the trees? I thought the Fist of the First Men was in a forest. What are you confused by? That the scenery doesn’t exactly match the book description? ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/228 "2012-05-01T01:45:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > What are you confused by? That the scenery doesn’t exactly match the book description? The whole area looks like a frozen wasteland. I thought the Fist was an abandoned fort, so I would expect at least some forested land nearby. What would they use for fuel if there isn’t any wood around? I guess I just imagined it looking more like the forest at Craster’s place in the first episode. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/229 "2012-05-01T05:28:14Z")
It would make some sense for the Fist itself to be clear of trees; it would have been easier to defend and perhaps the method used made re-growth unlikely in such a hostile place? Don’t they go down the hill in the book to collect firewood (where they find the dragonglass)? Perhaps the climate is so nasty that the winds and weather coming from the North with the higher mountains means that trees only grow on one side of the Fist , or a good ways downhill, or something of that sort. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/230 "2012-05-01T11:37:22Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > It would make some sense for the Fist itself to be clear of trees; it would have been easier to defend and perhaps the method used made re-growth unlikely in such a hostile place? Don’t they go down the hill in the book to collect firewood (where they find the dragonglass)? > > Perhaps the climate is so nasty that the winds and weather coming from the North with the higher mountains means that trees only grow on one side of the Fist , or a good ways downhill, or something of that sort. Ghost digs up the dragonglass. I’m not sure if they were looking for firewood at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/231 "2012-05-01T13:52:56Z")
Anybody have any ideas on what was happening with that bit of subtle bitchery among Dany’s handmaidens? Miss Hotty McHotterson managed to not die in the desert. My hormones were pleased. But now this whole thing is going on with the dragon loving her and the Dothraki it-is-known chick getting her hate on, and I’m starting to think they’re searching for a different way to off her. My hormones are displeased. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/232 "2012-05-01T17:20:22Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Anybody have any ideas on what was happening with that bit of subtle bitchery among Dany’s handmaidens? > > Miss Hotty McHotterson managed to not die in the desert. My hormones were pleased. But now this whole thing is going on with the dragon loving her and the Dothraki it-is-known chick getting her hate on, and I’m starting to think they’re searching for a different way to off her. My hormones are displeased. I figured they’re both vying for the # 1 spot. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/233 "2012-05-01T17:46:12Z")
Hey, waiddaminit: the books specify that the style of dress for the women of Qarth was to leave one breast exposed. Haven’t seen that yet. Really, HBO? Skipping a perfectly good opportunity to show boobies? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/234 "2012-05-01T17:59:14Z")
Maybe they’re having a hard time finding actresses with natural non-enhanced breasts. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/235 "2012-05-01T18:07:51Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Seems like a lot of the newbies (here and elsewhere) are not happy with the “arbitrariness” of the Shadowbaby and its killing of Renly. I never saw it as arbitrary in the book, perhaps because at first we don’t know what it is. It’s odd. By not seeing the context until the later Shadowbaby birth at Storm’s End, somehow that gives the first Shadowbaby more context in retrospect. So by making the first one arbitrary, it makes that part of the slow build for reveal of the second. Hmm… and here I thought that showing the Mel/Stannis sex and showing the birth of the 1st shadowbaby would make the killing of Renly _less_ WTF-inducing, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. weird. I’m a noob (haven’t read the books), but I was a bit confused by this whole affair. I thought that Melisandre tagged up with Stannis to produce an Heir. So, when the Shadowbaby arrives, i was a bit confused. Is SB supposed to be Stannis’ Heir (seems unlikely)? Is it still alive (or whatever you’d consider it)? Is Melisandre still preggers with Stannis’ real kid? Did I totally misinterpret their sex scene? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/236 "2012-05-01T18:24:09Z")
The sex was to make the shadow baby, it is supposed to take a lot out of Stannis so they quit doing it after a couple times (the show cut one of those times so there should be no more). The heir thing is a show creation, in the books Stannis has a daughter. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/237 "2012-05-01T18:47:43Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’m a noob (haven’t read the books), but I was a bit confused by this whole affair. I thought that Melisandre tagged up with Stannis to produce an Heir. So, when the Shadowbaby arrives, i was a bit confused. Is SB supposed to be Stannis’ Heir (seems unlikely)? If illegitimate children were allowed to be heirs, then there’d be a whole whack of heirs ahead of line in front of Stannis! ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/238 "2012-05-01T18:49:09Z")
I’ve read the books, but other than the Renly-killing one, I’ve completely forgotten all the shadowbaby stuff; can someone summarize the book stuff for me? I need to reread them, it seems (though I read them recently, I read them quickly and apparently missed a bunch of stuff as I just devoured the pages to get more of the overall story!) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/239 "2012-05-01T19:12:29Z")
Renly and the castellan of Storms End got killed by shadowbabies, the birthing scene was actually from the second one not from Renly. After that Melisandre says it takes too much out of Stannis to make them and tries to recruit Davos for sexy time, which he refuses. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/240 "2012-05-01T19:45:14Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Apparently the first thing Martin asked D.B Weiss and David Benioff before allowing them to make GoT was “who is Jon Snows mother”. Is that basically a confirmation of R + L = J? What is R + L = J? What is the speculation about Jon? I’ve read through most of book three and am current on the episodes… and I can’t figure out what these letters are supposed to stand for. Other than J for Jon. 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=13)