# Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008 "2012-03-28T01:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/261 "2012-05-02T02:58:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Let’s assume that this is not the topic that George asked D&D to see whether they were real fans. What would he ask them other than this? “Do you just hate Joffrey, or do you _loathe_ him?” ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/262 "2012-05-02T13:55:45Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Additionally, there’s a complementary theory about the Knight of the Laughing Tree, the mystery knight from the Tourney at Harrenhal. If you recall, Rhaegar won and choose to make Lyanna Stark the tourney’s Queen of Love and Beauty over his own wife. Now just prior to that, the mystery knight came into the tournament and kicked all kinds of ass, but disappeared before it was over. All we know is that the knight was small of stature, and beat some knights whose squires had taunted Howland Reed. This leaves the reader to assume that Reed was the mystery knight. It was likely Lyanna who Arya is said to resemble in disposition. At some point “off camera” Rhaegar discovers this, she stops dressing as the knight, and he awards her the Love and Beauty prize for reasons only he knows. > > Then later they make a baby. Ned is sworn to keep a promise, which is likely ‘never tell anyone but the child that I willingly went with Rhaegar and loved him, and we’re this baby’s parents.’ I think Ned likely didn’t tell Cat both because of his honor and he needed her to openly and convincingly treat Jon like a bastard to help support the lie. Otherwise, his best friend, King Robert would literally have the baby smashed to bits. Fascinating, I never thought of that. Jojen’s surprise that Bran’s father had never told him the story led me to believe that the mystery knight was Ned himself, who woudl have been fairly young at the time. But I like this theory much better! ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/263 "2012-05-02T14:53:51Z")
I think it is even mentioned at some point that Lyanna was the best rider of the Starks. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/264 "2012-05-03T14:03:26Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > This scene struck me differently. It seems to me that the Dothraki-handmaiden is feeling a bit, “fish out of water,” in Quarth. She is probably miffed that Hotchick-handmaiden is acting very “un-dothraki-ish” by cooing over the dress, and wanting to dress Dany up like a princess. I think she just wants Dany to act more like a Khaleesi and less like dragon Barbie. It makes sense that Hotchick-Handmaiden (Doreah) is acting “un-Dotkraki” because she ISN’T Dothraki. She’s a Lysine please slave given to Dany as a gift to teach her how to please Khal Drogo. But you’re right, though. Irri saw Dany transform from a timid little girl, to a Khaleesi and leader of a Dothraki tribe. Seeing Dany “ohh and ahh” over a frilly dress, and ditch her riding leathers is like a slap in the face to her and everything she helped Dany learn. And now I wonder where the Hell Jhiqui ran off to…we haven’t seen her at all this season, have we? ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/265 "2012-05-03T14:11:11Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > It makes sense that Hotchick-Handmaiden (Doreah) is acting “un-Dotkraki” because she ISN’T Dothraki. She’s a Lysine please slave given to Dany as a gift to teach her how to please Khal Drogo. > > But you’re right, though. Irri saw Dany transform from a timid little girl, to a Khaleesi and leader of a Dothraki tribe. Seeing Dany “ohh and ahh” over a frilly dress, and ditch her riding leathers is like a slap in the face to her and everything she helped Dany learn. > > And now I wonder where the Hell Jhiqui ran off to…we haven’t seen her at all this season, have we? This all makes sense. I just don’t know what the point is. They have so little time to work with (which is amazing, considering they have ten episodes for one book), I don’t know where they’re going with it. I’m wondering whether Hotchick-Handmaiden is going to survive Qarth. Are they setting up a different way of killing her off? If so, how is that gonna happen? Will it be a handmaiden dispute? A fierce bout of Dothraki mudwrestling, to the death? I just can’t see Doreah’s bigger purpose in all this, especially considering her fate in the book. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/266 "2012-05-03T16:34:47Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > In fact, I can’t stand Catelyn… mostly because of how she treats Jon. But also because of her rash decision making, which seems to derive from an inflated sense of self/personal honor. I liked Cat’s chapters but Cat as a character annoyed the piss out of me. She’s easily the cockiest character in the book. She always knows what the right thing to do is, despite the fact that she’s usually wrong. She was wrong about grabbing Tyrion, and she was wrong about releasing Jaime. I’ll never forgive her for saying to Robb in Clash of Kings “Tell the truth, are you reluctant to free the Kingslayer because you fear meeting him on the battlefield?” Cat knew that was wasn’t true. Robb wouldn’t release Jaime because he was without parallel the most valuable hostage one could possess in the 7 kingdoms. She called her own son a coward in order to manipulate him into making a bad decision. Then she got all butthurt that Robb didn’t want her advice anymore. On the other hand, she’s a great example of how Martin is a master of POV. Cat thinks she knows everything, and that the choices she makes are obviously the right choice. The events of the series prove her quite wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/267 "2012-05-03T16:46:36Z")
I hated Cat because every bad decision she makes stems from the completely selfish “my children are more important than anything else, so fuck you” mentality. That would be a perfectly reasonable way to feel for a regular person, but for someone like her is simply abuse of power. Arresting Tyrion, freeing Jamie, hell even pushing Ned to become hand to Robert, and every other bad decision she made came from the “unreasonable mom doing what she thinks is best, but it’s for the children so fuck you” mentality. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/268 "2012-05-03T16:47:36Z")
Cat’s dilemma is that she had Ned in her life for so long that she can no longer function outside the cotnext of a solidly honorable partner. I think she was right to nab Tyrion, or would have been if her sister wasn’t batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/269 "2012-05-03T17:26:25Z")
context. bilge. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/270 "2012-05-03T22:52:30Z")
I think Martin did an excellent job of characterisation with Catelyn. He’s perfectly captured a certain “know-it-all mother type”. She’s a great example of the [Dunning-Kruger effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruger-Dunning_effect). ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/271 "2012-05-03T23:31:24Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I think Martin did an excellent job of characterisation with Catelyn. He’s perfectly captured a certain “know-it-all mother type”. She’s a great example of the [Dunning-Kruger effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruger-Dunning_effect). Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/272 "2012-05-04T02:13:43Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I think Martin did an excellent job of characterisation with Catelyn. He’s perfectly captured a certain “know-it-all mother type”. She’s a great example of the [Dunning-Kruger effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruger-Dunning_effect). What is she ignorant about? She does make her share of mistakes, but they don’t seem to be worse than most characters in the book. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/273 "2012-05-04T03:24:19Z")
She’s ignorant about her own competence. Every one of the decisions she makes listed by **Secretary of Evil** above (persuading Eddard to become Hand, arresting Tyrion, goading Robb and then releasing Jaime) is based on her belief that she knows better than everyone else. I’d also add her continual undermining of Robb’s authority on the march south, her goading of the late Lord Frey at the Twins, and her attempt to conciliate Renly and Stannis to her list of failures. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/274 "2012-05-04T03:36:04Z")
I’d say she suffers from GRRM disease - women can’t be competent on their own, they’re emotional wrecks and need a strong man to prop-up their decision making or they become increasingly confused (Dany,) shrewish (Cat,) or simply fucking insane (Lyssa, Cersei.) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/275 "2012-05-04T03:52:46Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > I’d say she suffers from GRRM disease - women can’t be competent on their own, they’re emotional wrecks and need a strong man to prop-up their decision making or they become increasingly confused (Dany,) shrewish (Cat,) or simply fucking insane (Lyssa, Cersei.) Olenna Tyrell, Margarie Tyrell, Osha, Asha, the Mormont women, Brienne, Melisandre, Arya, etc… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/276 "2012-05-04T04:44:28Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > I’d say she suffers from GRRM disease - women can’t be competent on their own, they’re emotional wrecks and need a strong man to prop-up their decision making or they become increasingly confused (Dany,) shrewish (Cat,) or simply fucking insane (Lyssa, Cersei.) Few\* males\* (if any) in the world have any brains or are sane or are just giant dickheads or all three. Tyrion is just about the smartest guy on two continents, yet he’s a emotional wreck and not completely sane. It goes a lot to say he’s the most sympathetic character in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/277 "2012-05-04T12:21:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Few\* males\* (if any) in the world have any brains or are sane or are just giant dickheads or all three. Tyrion is just about the smartest guy on two continents, yet he’s a emotional wreck and not completely sane. It goes a lot to say he’s the most sympathetic character in the series. Oh, I wouldn’t say he’s the most sympathetic. I think that Ned, Brienne, and Jon Snow are all more sympathetic. None of them murdered a prostitute because she wasn’t loyal (hah!). He was, through the first three books, the coolest though. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/278 "2012-05-04T12:51:54Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Oh, I wouldn’t say he’s the most sympathetic. I think that Ned, Brienne, and Jon Snow are all more sympathetic. None of them murdered a prostitute because she wasn’t loyal (hah!). He was, through the first three books, the coolest though. But Ned’s a honorable idiot, and so (to a lesser extent) is John. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/279 "2012-05-04T18:52:30Z")
So I know it’s super nerdy, but I love this montage of ASOIF illustrations [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/27nd3rrR0Fw/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGUgZShlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLB8oLwi7bbDcguCbLIZl3Vlb2T4lA "Asoiaf") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27nd3rrR0Fw) Some of the drawings are just fantastic works of art in their own right, and it’s neat to see visuals of stuff that hasn’t been seen on the show yet, as well as to see different interpretations that are closer to the way the books described things. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/280 "2012-05-07T06:41:33Z")
So new episode tonight. I loved the Hound’s rescue scene, very badass. Also, naked Tonks! Yay! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=15)