# Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008 "2012-03-28T01:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/522 "2012-06-06T03:10:50Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I think that’s what the writers had in mind when they mentioned including one of the most memorable scenes from the books. I assume it’s the “red noces”. > > Although I also expect to see Joffrey’s death next season. Actually, the two fateful marriages would make a great parallel. > > The “survival guide to the seven kingdoms” : > > 1. Do not get married or agree to attend a marriage. If you’re not murdered yourself, you’ll become a murder suspect. > > 2)Do not become king or lay a claim on any throne (3 survivors out of 10, I believe) > > 1. Most importantly, never, ever, under no circumstances, accept to become hand of the king (80% casualty rate, the only survivor ending up a disfigured fugitive). How to Survive: Live in the Vale of Arryn. [ul] [li]Don’t attend court at the Eyrie[/li][li]Stick to town; stay clear of the hill tribes.[/li][/ul] Easy. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/523 "2012-06-06T04:22:27Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How would they wonder? “Last time we saw Theon, Ramsay Bolton was just outside. Now he’s in Ramsay Bolton’s dungeon. I’m so confused?!” I think that would work. Should we be concerned about major players, like Theon/Reek, who have to wait a long time between paychecks? Could they go on to something else, get busy, and not come back to the show? Anyone know what kind of contract they sign? Do they get paid whether or not they’re on the set? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/524 "2012-06-06T09:53:43Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think that would work. > > Should we be concerned about major players, like Theon/Reek, who have to wait a long time between paychecks? Could they go on to something else, get busy, and not come back to the show? Anyone know what kind of contract they sign? Do they get paid whether or not they’re on the set? I don’t know about their contract, but I don’t see why they would refuse to be cast in say, season 4 just because they haven’t been cast in season 3. None are major movie stars, and most of them could probaby find time in their agenda to appear again. Being cast again isn’t different from being offered to appear in some other production. And this show having been a resounding success, it’s probably a relatively good choice career-wise. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/525 "2012-06-06T10:10:04Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think that would work. > > Should we be concerned about major players, like Theon/Reek, who have to wait a long time between paychecks? Could they go on to something else, get busy, and not come back to the show? Anyone know what kind of contract they sign? Do they get paid whether or not they’re on the set? I don’t know about their contract, but I don’t see why they would refuse to be cast in say, season 4 just because they haven’t been cast in season 3. None are major movie stars, and most of them could probaby find time in their agenda to appear again. Being cast again isn’t different from being offered to appear in some other production. And this show having been a resounding success, it’s probably a relatively good choice career-wise. That’s for the short term. But in the long term, I can see that being an issue regarding major characters. If the books are covered at a pace of one or even only half a book/year, it’s going to last a long time. In the best case scenario “a dream of spring” would be shown in 2018, and I don’t even think it’s supposed to be the last book. I can’t see how there could be any guarantee that the main actors will still be available in 2020. Even worse is the case of child actors. They’re already all much older in real life than they’re supposed to be. The actress playing Arya is 15. The actor playing Rickon is 10. There’s no way they’ll still look like children 5 years down the road. I’m not sure how they’ll handle that. In fact, given the success of the show, I’m not sure why they’re advancing at such a slow pace. Wouldn’t they be better off producing two seasons/year, for instance when they have an impressive following rather then one/year with no guarantee that the public won’t be more interested in something else in the coming years? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/526 "2012-06-06T10:27:13Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How would they wonder? “Last time we saw Theon, Ramsay Bolton was just outside. Now he’s in Ramsay Bolton’s dungeon. I’m so confused?!” You might be right, but see all the discussion about what happened in Winterfell in the other thread. If it’s just glossed over in the next season “Oh, by the way a raven just came stating that Theon is being held by Ramsay Snow. And Ramsay might have burned Winterfell to the ground, too” (\*), they’ll probably cringe. (\*) Although the reader knows, I seem to reacall that what actually happened in Winterfell in unclear for most of the characters. Am I wrong? Maybe they intend to put the watcher in those characters’ shoes by not providing a clear-cut explanation? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/527 "2012-06-06T11:40:25Z")
[quote=“clairobscur, post:525, topic:617008”] “a dream of spring” would be shown in 2018, and I don’t even think it’s supposed to be the last book. [quote] Last I knew, he was still sticking to 7 books, so yes, it’s supposed to be. Of course, that could change. > [@](#): > > There’s no way they’ll still look like children 5 years down the road. I’m not sure how they’ll handle that. maybe they just won’t be children. Isn’t that ok? people grow up, even in Westeros. Is there anything specific about their arcs that require them to be pre-teens? Nothing I remember. > [@](#): > > In fact, given the success of the show, I’m not sure why they’re advancing at such a slow pace. Wouldn’t they be better off producing two seasons/year D&D have stated many times that it’s just not possible for them to make the seasons any longer. It takes them a full year to make 10 hours of show at the current level of quality. If they can’t make 11 or 12, they certainly couldn’t make 20. It’s not a budget issue, but a time issue. They could subcontract it out, of course, but the vision would likely suffer. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/528 "2012-06-06T12:51:37Z")
Advancing at a faster pace would just run into the problem of finishing with the published books before Martin has finished the new ones, which would be a bigger issue than growing children. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/529 "2012-06-06T14:30:23Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I think that’s what the writers had in mind when they mentioned including one of the most memorable scenes from the books. I assume it’s the “red noces”. > > Although I also expect to see Joffrey’s death next season. Actually, the two fateful marriages would make a great parallel. > > The “survival guide to the seven kingdoms” : > > 1. Do not get married or agree to attend a marriage. If you’re not murdered yourself, you’ll become a murder suspect. > > 2)Do not become king or lay a claim on any throne (3 survivors out of 10, I believe) > > 1. Most importantly, never, ever, under no circumstances, accept to become hand of the king (80% casualty rate, the only survivor ending up a disfigured fugitive). Tywin has survived it twice; making him the cleverest (or most devious) guy in all Westeros. Re: actors, they be crazy not to come back to this. They just need to make sure they have residual rights. Is that the right term? where they get paid every time the show is shown in repeats? This has the potential to be Star Wars/Trek type lifetime income if they play their cards right. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/530 "2012-06-06T15:27:23Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Tywin has survived it twice; making him the cleverest (or most devious) guy in all Westeros. Not entirely sure getting shot in the bowels in your second go around is surviving it the second time ;). ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/531 "2012-06-06T15:33:53Z")
I was surprised we didn’t see more of Mormont at the end of this season. He seemed to be a well liked character/actor and his death might be dramatic if it’s in the first couple episodes. As for actors leaving for a year and then coming back. Movies aren’t the problem, it’s getting on a series that would be problematic, and a US series at that. (they could probably work around a UK Show since they tend to be short.) [QUOTE=Conan Stevens, the original Mountain] To everyone else who supported me I have to say thankyou, getting in GOT opened the audition doors for Hobbit, which opened the door to Spartacus and now a potential major role in a new movie depending on Hobbit scheduling conflicts, but in any case I now have a much better future. [/QUOTE] [Full Post here](http://winteriscoming.net/2011/09/amory-lorch-cast-gregor-recast/#comment-131915) So in that case, it’s a combination of a smaller part on GoT, and both a movie and a series (probably more money on both) I’m very interested in the return of Selmy. If it’s the same actor, will they hide his face? Or will they just show him and let those in the know, keep their mouths shut? ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/532 "2012-06-06T16:06:53Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Sansa specifically describes her as a tiny sweet-looking old woman. Maggie Smith is neither of those things. 🙂 You’re right, Maggie Smith is awesome! I’m watching Downton Abby and loving her. [This is Olenna Redwyne’s Wiki page.](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Olenna_Redwyne) I just never got the impression of Olenna as having a sweet veneer or being under the radar, everyone is wary of her. I think this is one of Sansa’s unreliable narrator moments myself. The fanart on that page is all over the place. The lower one looks like the old lady from Titanic, who actually might not be a bad choice, she had her feisty moments. The top pic though, that makes her look like she crawled from under a bridge somewhere - yikes! SOS was my favorite book so I like the idea of stretching it over 2 seasons and giving it a really loving treatment. They can’t do that with 4 and 5 though, right? I would think FFC and DWD would have to be done concurrently but would that mean giving everyone a half-arc for a season? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/533 "2012-06-06T16:15:49Z")
Some fan sites have suggested chapter orders for splicing AFFC and ADWD. I imagine they’ll do the same with the show. Probably two seasons for the two of them, but they’re really pretty light on plot. The two of them combined move the story forward less than any other single book in the series. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/534 "2012-06-06T16:38:30Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Not entirely sure getting shot in the bowels in your second go around is surviving it the second time ;). Wasn’t that actually his third time though? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/535 "2012-06-06T18:30:02Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Wasn’t that actually his third time though? IIRC, he never actually gave up being Hand to Joffery, but simply had Tyrion stand in for him while he fought Robb in the Riverlands. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/536 "2012-06-07T23:38:43Z")
I almost started a new thread but I can’t figure out a title that’s informative but not a spoiler for non-readers. “Who killed Joffrey?” would piss some people off, ya know? I’m interested in theories/speculation on who poisoned Joffrey. If the mystery was resolved in the later books, I’ve forgotten. I’ve read speculation that the Queen of Thorns is responsible, because she was fiddling with Margaery’s veil, which had some small gems on it, and one of the books mentioned little gem-like things that are actually poison. But I just re-read the wedding banquet stuff, and there’s no indication that she was close enough to Joff to put something in his goblet. And Margaery drank out of the same goblet. So if grandma did it, she would have had to give Margaery an antidote before the banquet. We know Tyrion didn’t do it. Tywin was pissed at Joffrey but he didn’t get close to the goblet either. So who did it and how? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/537 "2012-06-07T23:50:53Z")
It was Sansa’s veil that had the poison. I don’t know if it was the Queen of Thorns who did it, but i am fairly certain it was the Tyrells. If the QoT didn’t have access to the cup then Margaery certainly did, which also gave her the chance to give herself an alibi by drinking from it before putting the poison in. Either way i assume she must have known when it was going to happen to drink beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/538 "2012-06-07T23:59:29Z")
As soon as I read that the Queen of Thorns fussed with Sansa’s hairnet during the receiving line, I guessed that she was removing a stone for some reason. When Joffrey died, I was certain the the QofT had done it. Only at first I thought she was trying to kill Tryion, because Joffrey eats some of Tyrion’s pigeon pie. He’s holding the wine chalice in one hand and starts to choke on the pie and drinks the wine to wash it down. It is mentioned, though that the chalice was alone on the table and Tyrion had to go back for it. Since they go on about it being the wine, I gave up the idea that Olenna was trying to poison Tyrion and had somehow slipped the wine in the chalice while everyone was watching them slice open the pigeon pie. Margery isn’t mentioned drinking during that bit. My guess is, she was in on the plot all along. Possibly Olenna slipped the poison stone to her during the feast and Margery put it in the wine. That way she would know when to not drink any longer. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/539 "2012-06-08T01:52:32Z")
Littlefinger pretty much confirms that it was the Queen of Thorns who poisons Joffery. Whether she had help or not is unclear. What I never understood was why Tyrion poured the wine onto the floor afterwards. It was pretty clear from the way Joff died what the poison was. Pouring out the wine achieved nothing other than making him look extremely guilty. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/540 "2012-06-08T01:58:44Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > You’re right, Maggie Smith is awesome! I’m watching Downton Abby and loving her. > > [This is Olenna Redwyne’s Wiki page.](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Olenna_Redwyne) I just never got the impression of Olenna as having a sweet veneer or being under the radar, everyone is wary of her. I think this is one of Sansa’s unreliable narrator moments myself. Well, she is described as “small” several times in the book. Sansa may have been mistaken about the sweet part but I think Olenna’s stature is made objectively clear throughout the book. Maggie Smith has always given me the impression of being tall. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/541 "2012-06-08T02:52:56Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > What I never understood was why Tyrion poured the wine onto the floor afterwards. It was pretty clear from the way Joff died what the poison was. Pouring out the wine achieved nothing other than making him look extremely guilty. That was an unnecessary contrivance on GRRM’s part, I think. I could understand it if GRRM was going to write a fair trial for Tyrion – he’d need some evidence that could point to guilt. But since everyone who testified was going to lie and misconstrue Tyrion’s actions anyway, why add something that made Tyrion look guilty? That was disappointing. Also disappointing was Tyrion snapping and telling Jaime that yes, he killed Joffrey. Say it to Cersei or Tywin as you’re about to be executed, but don’t say it to the only family member who gives a shit about you. It’s too melodramatic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=28)