# Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008 "2012-03-28T01:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/602 "2012-06-15T14:52:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Does anyone have theories on why they chose to keep Bran and Rickons “deaths” a secret on the show? because that seems like one of those inexplicable changes that don’t add anything and make things worse. It just makes Catelyn look stupider and bitchier and Robb look like a bigger douche, for no reason. The same reason why Reek was cut and the Unsullied have no idea what the fuck happened at Winterfell. Because it’s _different_ than the book. See? ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/603 "2012-06-15T15:21:10Z")
Well, I was wondering about that too. Some things are cut to streamline the plot but the Bran/Rickon thing wouldn’t have taken up that much time. I do remember Theon wanting to send a message out and the maester reminding him that he’d killed all the ravens. Maybe they needed all the ravens to be dead for that part of the plot to work. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/604 "2012-06-15T15:42:12Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > The same reason why Reek was cut and the Unsullied have no idea what the fuck happened at Winterfell. Because it’s _different_ than the book. See? I understand perfectly why Reek was cut off, that and a lot of other things can be explained away with “because the book way wouldn’t work on a TV show”. But i can’t think of any reason for the other change. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/605 "2012-06-15T16:08:32Z")
I think it undercuts some of the sadness and brutality of the RW too. D&D did say that they wanted Robb’s marriage to be a deliberate decision of picking love over his word. I disagree with their decision in going that direction, but they apparently had that reason. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/606 "2012-06-15T16:26:54Z")
I’m certain they will find out before the RW though, Bolton’s Bastard has to send them a report now even if its mostly lies it is sure to mention that Theon had Bran and Rickon killed. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/607 "2012-06-15T17:22:51Z")
Yeah, for Catelyn it’ll be every bit as brutal, but I don’t think that’s true of Robb. I suppose it doesn’t really matter to any of the characters why he breaks his vow, but Robb is far far more sympathetic to me if he’s trying to do the honorable thing after a moment of weakness rather than thinking with his dick. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/608 "2012-06-18T21:32:25Z")
Well, I can’t find the posts I need to quote, but I came to say I was totally effing wrong about the “Bran eats humans” discussion. I just re-read that bit last night. (It’s about 65 pages in to Dragons.) I can only think that I must have put the book down, and then picked it back up skipping a paragraph or two the first time round. Either that or I just blocked it out. Because, hoo boy! Yuck! As God is my witness, I thought Cold Hands had butchered a sow. Hiding the rest in case you are eating. [spoiler] Bran does indeed tear into some humans while warging. It’s in the same spot where he does in SixSkins (as one-eye) and takes his pack. Furthermore, when he comes back to his body, Hodor is tearing into some lovely charred flesh himself, and Meera informs Bran that Cold Hands has brought them some meat from a sow he killed. Meera has another chunk of flesh on her frog fork, roasting it. It’s unclear whether Jojen has eaten already or not, but he seems to be the only one who picks up on what’s happening as Bran confronts Cold Hands about the dead being not only human but nights watch as well. It’s also unclear whether Bran or Meera eat at that point. But Meera definitely cooked some, and Hodor, at least, innocently tucked in. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/609 "2012-06-19T16:01:48Z")
I’ve been thinking about how they will portray Shae’s betrayal of Tyrion. Since they’re clearly showing a stronger love between the couple in the show, they might play the jealousy angle when Tyrion marries Sansa. She could interpret some of the affection Tyrion shows Sansa as budding love. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/610 "2012-06-19T16:39:47Z")
It’s not really betrayal though. Shae’s a whore and she’s doing what he pays her for. Then Tyrion is arrested and a better deal comes along. That’s what Shae is and Tyrion reminds himself of it often, albeit not often enough. I think that scene is going to be pretty fucking brutal though. And then killing Tywin right after?! Holy shit, hurry up seasons 3 and 4! ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/611 "2012-06-19T16:43:15Z")
I’m extremely surprised that people see it as a betrayal. Shae is a survivor, who does what she has to do under the circumstances. What she does is no different than Sansa insisting that her Father and Brother were traitors and she is loyal to her beloved Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/612 "2012-06-19T17:00:23Z")
It was still a betrayal. Forget that Tyrion genuinely cared about her. He lifted her up from lowly camp follower to royal courtesan, and plans to arrange her marriage to a promising knight. She pretty much hit the whore lottery with Tyrion. And in repayment, she didn’t just sleep with Tywin; she bore false witness against Tyrion at his trial. Still, it’s less about the betrayal than it is heartbreak for Tyrion, who knows better, but just couldn’t help himself this one time. I could almost picture Tyrion shouting like Sam Kinison in pain and anger when he found her in Tywin’s bed. “Sleep with my _dad_?!! OW, OWWWWWWWWW!” ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/613 "2012-06-19T17:00:49Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > It’s not really betrayal though. Shae’s a whore and she’s doing what he pays her for. Then Tyrion is arrested and a better deal comes along. That’s what Shae is and Tyrion reminds himself of it often, albeit not often enough. But TV Shae is doing more than what a whore would do, and more than what Book Shae did. TV Tyrion seems convinced that Shae truly loves him but Book Tyrion was always skeptical. Because she seems sincere and because Tyrion seems to really love and trust her, the writers need to do something like what **Wolverine** suggests or her betrayal will seem contrived. We need more than Shae doing what whores do. I understand Shae being with Tywin not because she’s a whore, but because she wants to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/614 "2012-06-19T18:16:18Z")
You like Tyrion and want to see him happy, therefore he’s not living a lie with the hooker he fell in love with like an idiot. Really, what had she done? She’s talked and fucked, that’s it. Well, and demanded things way above her station while being really annoying, but Tyrion has no reason to think she’s doing anything but her job except he’d like it if she did. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/615 "2012-06-19T18:44:37Z")
She offered to run away with him with nothing but the clothes on their back, that’s a bit above and beyond normal whoring. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/616 "2012-06-19T18:49:03Z")
Well, one thing she did was try to convince Tyrion that they should leave King’s Landing. She’s willing to go with him to a place where they can live openly together, in a place where Tyrion (presumably) has no authority or power. A whore wouldn’t do that. ETA: I type too slowly. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/617 "2012-06-19T21:16:06Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Well, I can’t find the posts I need to quote, but I came to say I was totally effing wrong about the “Bran eats humans” discussion. I just re-read that bit last night. (It’s about 65 pages in to Dragons.) > > I can only think that I must have put the book down, and then picked it back up skipping a paragraph or two the first time round. Either that or I just blocked it out. > > Because, hoo boy! Yuck! As God is my witness, I thought Cold Hands had butchered a sow. > > Hiding the rest in case you are eating. > > [spoiler] Bran does indeed tear into some humans while warging. It’s in the same spot where he does in SixSkins (as one-eye) and takes his pack. Furthermore, when he comes back to his body, Hodor is tearing into some lovely charred flesh himself, and Meera informs Bran that Cold Hands has brought them some meat from a sow he killed. Meera has another chunk of flesh on her frog fork, roasting it. It’s unclear whether Jojen has eaten already or not, but he seems to be the only one who picks up on what’s happening as Bran confronts Cold Hands about the dead being not only human but nights watch as well. > > It’s also unclear whether Bran or Meera eat at that point. But Meera definitely cooked some, and Hodor, at least, innocently tucked in. > > [/spoiler] They’re back on page 5 of this thread. No one disputed whether Bran in wolf form had eaten human flesh, the real issue was whether he’d eaten Jojen Reed - which your quote doesn’t resolve. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/618 "2012-06-20T12:25:34Z")
I forgot that part. Touché. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/619 "2012-06-20T15:12:05Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > They’re back on page 5 of this thread. **No one disputed whether Bran in wolf form had eaten human flesh,** the real issue was whether he’d eaten Jojen Reed - which your quote doesn’t resolve. I did, thus the mea culpa. > [@TruCelt](#): > > [COLOR=black][FONT=Trebuchet MS]Wait - what did I miss? When did Jojen go missing? The last I recall he was gazing longingly out of the cave entrance, and Meera was saying he wants to go home. Did I skip a chapter? **And are you sure you’re not confusing Bran’s warging with Sixskins’? I recall Summer eating a rotting bear, but not people.** I don’t get a lot of uninterrupted reading time though, so I could be confused. . > [/COLOR][/FONT] ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/620 "2012-06-20T20:56:22Z")
Good point, but the “Did wolf-Bran eat Jojen?” question is still unresolved. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008/621 "2012-06-27T20:46:17Z")
[George R.R. Martin please write like the wind!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j7lp3RhzfgI) Video of Paul and Storm’s new song. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-2-open-spoilers-discussion-thread/617008.md?page=30)