# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/181 "2014-04-16T14:46:04Z")
It’s been a long time since I read the books, can anyone remind me how his poisoning played out in the book? Was it pretty much like in the show? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/182 "2014-04-16T15:37:05Z")
No big deviations from the book so far as I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/183 "2014-04-16T15:57:21Z")
The main deviation was the confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion. Tyrion’s smackdown of Joffrey was more pronounced in the book. If I remember right, the dwarves were riding dogs or pigs and Joffrey wanted Tyrion to ride one so Joffrey and Tyrion could have a joust. Tyrion jumped up on a table and said something like “No problem – I’ll fight you because you’re the only person here I know I can beat”. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/184 "2014-04-16T16:05:09Z")
I might be misremembering since it’s been a while, but I thought it was still more or less a mystery who was behind the poisoning in the books, other than that Littlefinger had some sort of stake in it. The hints that the show has been dropping seem to be pretty unequivocally pointing to Olenna, though. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/185 "2014-04-16T16:25:07Z")
One of the showrunners just recently gave an interview stating that this season was going to have a huge finale off the scale of what we’ve seen before. What do we think that is? The battle at the wall complete with mammoths and giants? ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/186 "2014-04-16T16:26:15Z")
It was also a lot less obvious that is was poison, while GRRM drop enough hints for the reader to realize that it was indeed poison, the wedding guest thought he just choked on the pie, until Cersei got hysterical and started accusing Tyrion. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/187 "2014-04-16T17:04:34Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > I might be misremembering since it’s been a while, but I thought it was still more or less a mystery who was behind the poisoning in the books, other than that Littlefinger had some sort of stake in it. The hints that the show has been dropping seem to be pretty unequivocally pointing to Olenna, though. There are several links in this thread to some articles that support the opinion that it was a joint venture between Littlefinger and Olenna and perhaps some other people as well. See post #150 in this thread for one. Olenna’s motive seems very clear. But if you happen to come across a motive for LF that makes sense, I’d appreciate if you’d let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/188 "2014-04-16T17:14:23Z")
Interesting, I found another cite that suggests it was not LF and Olenna but was instead Petyr Baelish and Olenna. Here is a cite that makes that claim: > **[Joffrey Baratheon](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Joffrey_Baratheon)** > > Prince Joffrey Baratheon is known to the Seven Kingdoms as the eldest son and heir of King Robert I Baratheon and Queen Cersei Lannister. A member of House Baratheon of King's Landing, his siblings are Princess Myrcella and Prince Tommen. In the... “During his wedding feast in the throne room, Joffrey’s wine is poisoned and he dies on the first day of the 3rd Century since Aegon’s Landing while the entire court looks on, his face turning black as he asphyxiates while tearing at his throat.[2] Cersei blames the deed on Tyrion and Sansa, but it is later revealed that the plot was orchestrated by Olenna Redwyne and Petyr Baelish.” Strange that one of these links give Olenna’s last name as Tyrell whereas the other one gives it as Redwyne. I have no idea why. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/189 "2014-04-16T17:19:17Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Interesting, I found another cite that suggests it was not LF and Olenna but was instead Petyr Baelish and Olenna. Petyr Baelish _is_ Littlefinger. Named so by Catelyn’s brother Edmure due to the fact that Petyr Baelish was heir to a very minor holding in the Fingers region of Westeros (close to the Vale). Also, Oleanna’s maiden name was Redwyne. Its not entirely clear whether the entirety of Westeros follows a patriarchal naming system upon marriage. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/190 "2014-04-16T17:19:17Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > There are several links in this thread to some articles that support the opinion that it was a joint venture between Littlefinger and Olenna and perhaps some other people as well. > > See post #150 in this thread for one. Right, but this appears to be a situation in which the shows are giving us information that’s not in the books. In the books, to the best of my recollection, it’s clear that Littlefinger had advanced knowledge of it, but we never know who actually orchestrated it or who actually slipped him the poison. The show appears to be all but telling us that it was Olenna. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/191 "2014-04-16T17:21:40Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Interesting, I found another cite that suggests it was not LF and Olenna but was instead Petyr Baelish and Olenna. Umm, Littlefinger IS Petyr Baelish, that’s his nickname. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/192 "2014-04-16T17:22:42Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Interesting, I found another cite that suggests it was not LF and Olenna but was instead Petyr Baelish and Olenna. I’m a little confused here. Littefinger is Petyr Baelish. That’s his nickname. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/193 "2014-04-16T18:17:11Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > Comments regarding posts in the non-spoiler thread. I’m putting it in a spoiler box just in case there are non-book readers who also read here. Yeah, yeah… “Fully and Openly Spoiled” but I don’t need the damn drama so just click the box! 😉 > > The Unsullied are going nutty with half-arsed theories on whodunit while loudly and proudly proclaiming that it simply doesn’t make sense for it to have been The Queen of Thornes. It is both infuriating and hysterical. 😃 On the rest of the web The Unsullied are referred to as showfags. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/194 "2014-04-16T18:17:52Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > Petyr Baelish _is_ Littlefinger. Named so by Catelyn’s brother Edmure due to the fact that Petyr Baelish was heir to a very minor holding in the Fingers region of Westeros (close to the Vale). > > Also, Oleanna’s maiden name was Redwyne. Its not entirely clear whether the entirety of Westeros follows a patriarchal naming system upon marriage. I thank you very much Angua. I never realized that Petyr Baelish was LittleFinger. I thought Petyr Baelish was Lord Varys. I got the two of them confused. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/195 "2014-04-16T18:36:55Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Slynt didn’t come from noble birth, but since he had risen to gold cloaks commander, he was still granted more status in the NW, much like a knight sent to the wall for a “minor” crime, like rape. (apparently not as big a deal in Westeros) > > One of the themes of the series is that power is an illusion. Remember Varys’ riddle to Tyrion? Power exists wherever men believe it does. Janos Slynt arrived at the NW insisting he was better than others due to his past, the other high-ranking members of the NW believed him, therefore it’s true. Especially the second part makes sense. But one of the top 3 leaders? Giving rapists and murderers a sword and a shitty job, and putting them out in the wilderness with lords and a “he totally got fragged by wildlings” excuse always seemed like a bad idea. > [@GreasyJack](#): > > I might be misremembering since it’s been a while, but I thought it was still more or less a mystery who was behind the poisoning in the books, other than that Littlefinger had some sort of stake in it. The hints that the show has been dropping seem to be pretty unequivocally pointing to Olenna, though. _PAAAN_ _ZOOOOOM_ > [@Lakai](#): > > I’m a little confused here. Littefinger is Petyr Baelish. That’s his nickname. Guys, Rio was written by Simon Le Bon **and** Duran Duran ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/196 "2014-04-16T18:42:05Z")
It has been awhile since I read the books but I thought there was a segment where Petyr Baelish (not that Littlefinger guy) admits that not only did he (Littlefinger) orchestrate it but that he (Petyr Baelish) did it for the equivalent of “shits and giggles”. Am I misremembering things? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/197 "2014-04-16T18:56:36Z")
Am I seeing things or does the actor playing Littlefinger (the brothel owner) look a lot like the guy portraying Petyr Baelish (the Master of Coin)? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/198 "2014-04-16T19:09:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Am I seeing things or does the actor playing Littlefinger (the brothel owner) look a lot like the guy portraying Petyr Baelish (the Master of Coin)? I can see why you’d be confused … there IS a slight resemblance between these two and the Lord of Harrenhal. Take a look: [Littlefinger](http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/lists/final-standings-in-the-game-of-thrones-after-season-two-20120606/petyr-littlefinger-baelish-the-master-of-coin-19691231) [Petyr Baelish](http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/lists/final-standings-in-the-game-of-thrones-after-season-two-20120606/petyr-littlefinger-baelish-the-master-of-coin-19691231) [Lord of Harrenhal](http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/lists/final-standings-in-the-game-of-thrones-after-season-two-20120606/petyr-littlefinger-baelish-the-master-of-coin-19691231) I wish they’d cast these things better to make it easier on us viewers. Next thing you know, folks will be getting Lysa Arryn confused with Selyse Baratheon. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/199 "2014-04-16T19:12:36Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > On the rest of the web The Unsullied are referred to as showfags. I call them the Illiterati. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/200 "2014-04-16T19:56:04Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > It has been awhile since I read the books but I thought there was a segment where Petyr Baelish (not that Littlefinger guy) admits that not only did he (Littlefinger) orchestrate it but that he (Petyr Baelish) did it for the equivalent of “shits and giggles”. > > Am I misremembering things? That rings a bell, but I don’t recall him going into full on Bond villain exposition mode and explaining exactly how he did it. Checking the wikis, though, apparently it does eventually become clear that Olenna was his confederate and the actual poisoner. Maybe there should be a separate thread for people who’ve read the books but don’t remember them all that well. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=11)