# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/281 "2014-04-28T15:32:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can’t wait for the final Tyrion/Shae/Tywin confrontation, plus the non-reader reactions! I’m torn. With the changes they’ve made, it’s hard for those scenes to play out as powerfully as they did in the books. Shae’s heel turn is more believable in the show and if Tyrion still killls her, it’s less understandable from our perspective. Tyrion’s already denied killing Joffrey to Jaime, so their conversation where Tyrion lies and says that he kill Joff doesn’t make sense. Cersei hasn’t been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy, so that line is out in the window. We’ve barely seen the Hand necklace, so the significance there is lost. We haven’t heard about Tysha in forever (and that story played out differently as well, removing a lot of Tyrion’s culpabiity and guilt), so there’s very little emotion in the revelation that she wasn’t a whore. For that matter, Oberyn has already been promised the Mountain, so where is his motivation for championing Tyrion? So many iconic scenes from Storm of Swords are going to have to play out differently. I’m sure they’ll still be good, but they’re not the way I know them, and that makes me sad. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/282 "2014-04-28T15:57:57Z")
Do the economics of what Daenery is doing even make sense? You free a shit load of slaves and then what? They use their dead master’s money until they run out? It is not like anyone is around to hire them. I think most of them would starve to death within a year. Where is Daenery getting the food to feed her army anyway? From plunder? That is not exactly a long term plan. ---
**Author:** ![Neverending\_Elbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e274bd/32.png) [@Neverending\_Elbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neverending_Elbow)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/283 "2014-04-28T16:05:51Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Cersei hasn’t been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy, so that line is out in the window. I’m pretty sure she did do Lancel. Tyrion even threatened him with lettign Jaime know about it. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/284 "2014-04-28T16:09:41Z")
For those of us who read the books but cannot watch the show, can someone fill us in on Bran’s capture and the references to the Craster mutineers? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/285 "2014-04-28T16:14:14Z")
Cersei was fucking Lancel, way back in the first season, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/286 "2014-04-28T16:14:24Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Do the economics of what Daenery is doing even make sense? You free a shit load of slaves and then what? They use their dead master’s money until they run out? It is not like anyone is around to hire them. I think most of them would starve to death within a year. > > Where is Daenery getting the food to feed her army anyway? From plunder? That is not exactly a long term plan. No, it doesn’t make sense and this is brought up in the book. The sex slaves for example had to become whores and lived in much worse conditions than they ever did as sex slaves. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/287 "2014-04-28T16:19:03Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > OK, I haven’t read the books in forever or watched last season recently, so, who is the guy who threw his sword into the horse’s head and killed the champion? Where did he come from and what is his story? I was looking at him and I was like “who the fuck is this guy?” In the books, that fight was handled by Strong Belwas, but I guess in the interest of condensing the character list, they had Daario do it. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/288 "2014-04-28T16:34:18Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Do the economics of what Daenery is doing even make sense? You free a shit load of slaves and then what? They use their dead master’s money until they run out? It is not like anyone is around to hire them. I think most of them would starve to death within a year. > > Where is Daenery getting the food to feed her army anyway? From plunder? That is not exactly a long term plan. [![](https://i.imgur.com/6QZEgjl.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/6QZEgjl.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/289 "2014-04-28T16:38:13Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I’m torn. With the changes they’ve made, it’s hard for those scenes to play out as powerfully as they did in the books. Shae’s heel turn is more believable in the show and if Tyrion still killls her, it’s less understandable from our perspective. Tyrion’s already denied killing Joffrey to Jaime, so their conversation where Tyrion lies and says that he kill Joff doesn’t make sense. Cersei hasn’t been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy, so that line is out in the window. We’ve barely seen the Hand necklace, so the significance there is lost. We haven’t heard about Tysha in forever (and that story played out differently as well, removing a lot of Tyrion’s culpabiity and guilt), so there’s very little emotion in the revelation that she wasn’t a whore. For that matter, Oberyn has already been promised the Mountain, so where is his motivation for championing Tyrion? > > So many iconic scenes from Storm of Swords are going to have to play out differently. I’m sure they’ll still be good, but they’re not the way I know them, and that makes me sad. I agree, those are some of my favorite scenes/lines, and I’m just not sure how they’ll end up with the same power and effect. I’m especially curious as to how they’ll handle Oberyn championing Tyrion… either Tywin will need to renege on his promise, or Oberyn decides he wants to take him down himself in combat instead of just execution-style? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/290 "2014-04-28T16:43:54Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Do the economics of what Daenery is doing even make sense? You free a shit load of slaves and then what? They use their dead master’s money until they run out? It is not like anyone is around to hire them. I think most of them would starve to death within a year. > > Where is Daenery getting the food to feed her army anyway? From plunder? That is not exactly a long term plan. You’ve basically described the next part of her character arc. Much like Robert Baratheon, she’s learned how to conquer, but she has no idea how to rule. Before going to Westeros, she needs to figure that out. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/291 "2014-04-28T16:45:26Z")
> [@Neverending\_Elbow](#): > > I’m pretty sure she did do Lancel. Tyrion even threatened him with lettign Jaime know about it. OK fair, but still, the line loses a lot. “Cersei fucked Lancel! Once or twice! Quite a while ago!” Just doesn’t have the same ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/292 "2014-04-28T17:10:11Z")
I think we’re starting to see some signs from the show that the producers aren’t completely sanguine with GRRM’s timetable for the last two books. The sixth book was supposed to be released last summer, so it’s almost a year late at this point. I know he is closely involved with the show’s production, but they’re rapidly reaching points that are the end of the book’s tale to date. And the closing scene of this week’s episode revealed something about the White Walkers that (to the best of my recollection) hasn’t even been addressed in the books. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/293 "2014-04-28T17:51:24Z")
Nice catch on imgur: The kid at the Night’s Watch that bragged about being the best archer in his hamlet was the one whose father got headshotted by Ygritte. And he saw her face. When the attack on the wall comes, I think we know who is going to get that kill. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/294 "2014-04-28T18:02:13Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > For those of us who read the books but cannot watch the show, can someone fill us in on Bran’s capture and the references to the Craster mutineers? So first off, the character of Coldhands has been eliminated altogether - Bran and crew just got shown the way through the wall and are on their own. We rejoined the mutineers at Craster’s where they’re basically just hanging out, raping the women, and drinking. At Castle Black, Jon Snow says that he told Mance that Castle Black has 1,000 men when in actuality, they only have 100. He makes the argument that, since the mutineers know this truth, it’s a threat to let them stay out there. He also brings up to his brothers that Mormont deserves justice. Back at Craster’s, one of the mutineers is tasked with leaving a baby boy out for the Others. When he does this, Bran and company hear the baby’s cries and he wargs into Summer to check it out. He sees Ghost in a cage and runs toward the cage when he falls into a trap. He convinces his companions that they have to go there and save the direwolves. When they’re nearby, they are captured by the mutineers who soon discover who Bran is. So at this point, the mutineers have Bran captive (along with Hodor, Meera, and Jojen) and Jon Snow is on his way to Craster’s with a band of Nights Watch men to kill or capture the mutineers. Jon Snow has no knowledge that Bran is there at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/295 "2014-04-28T18:27:47Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > So first off, the character of Coldhands has been eliminated altogether -. > > \ > Jon Snow has no knowledge that Bran is there at this point. I wouldn’t say altogether. Coldhands doesn’t show up until the end of book 3 where he meets Bran & Co on the other side of the wall. Yes they’re past the wall, but we’re not out of book 3. I envision that Coldhands will show up when he’s needed, which will be after Craster’s Keep. Jon Snow may know nothing, but he strongly suspects that Bran’s at Craster’s. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/296 "2014-04-28T18:34:14Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > We’ve barely seen the Hand necklace, so the significance there is lost. It’s a pin. A bit harder to wear naked, that. > [@](#): > > We haven’t heard about Tysha in forever (and that story played out differently as well, removing a lot of Tyrion’s culpabiity and guilt), so there’s very little emotion in the revelation that she wasn’t a whore. Honestly can’t remember - does this show do “previously on” segments? It might be difficult to bring that up, but doable. As long as it doesn’t become an “As you know Bob…” segment (e.g. “Hey Tyrion! Remember that girl you were married to? Tysha I think? Didn’t you love her? But you already know this, why am I telling you?” scene). > [@](#): > > For that matter, Oberyn has already been promised the Mountain, so where is his motivation for championing Tyrion? Because Tywin is dick. Or Gregor pisses him off and he can’t wait. > [@by-tor](#): > > Where is Daenery getting the food to feed her army anyway? From plunder? That is not exactly a long term plan. Wasn’t there something book-wise about how she learned that her previously conquered cities became anarchic hell-holes, so she wants to do better with Meereen? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/297 "2014-04-28T18:35:33Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Nice catch on imgur: The kid at the Night’s Watch that bragged about being the best archer in his hamlet was the one whose father got headshotted by Ygritte. Wait, that wasn’t supposed to be obvious? I caught it right away. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/298 "2014-04-28T18:39:24Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Wait, that wasn’t supposed to be obvious? I caught it right away. Yeah. It’s not like there are tons of ten-year olds on the Wall. He stood out. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/299 "2014-04-28T19:21:44Z")
I’ll be the kills the spearwife in this adaption. What are there plans wrt to Martins dilatory attempts to finish the book. At the rate we are going the last book will be the novelisation of the latter parts of the show. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/300 "2014-04-28T19:29:11Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Jon Snow may know nothing, but he strongly suspects that Bran’s at Craster’s. I couldn’t be more confused, probably because I’ve been re-reading, and re-reading out of order. Why hasn’t Sam told Jon that he ran into Bran? I know he promised Bran not to tell, but that’s a promise he needs to break. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=16)