# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/441 "2014-05-13T13:32:38Z")
Keep in mind, though, that the show has not yet called Oberyn the “Red Viper”. People who only watch the show and haven’t heard much about the character from book readers wouldn’t necessarily know that “The Viper & The Mountain” refers to Oberyn Martell and, aside from the trailer for next week, there hasn’t been a mention of the Mountain in reference to the trial yet either. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/442 "2014-05-13T13:44:22Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think there are some Sullied in the non-spoiler thread. Where are they getting the idea that The Mountain will be a champion? He hasn’t been seen in ages and he’s supposed to be still out pillaging, isn’t he? Just because Oberyn wants to kill him doesn’t mean he’ll show up at the trial. I post in there, but I don’t post “speculation.” I mostly try to answer questions/fill in info for the Unsullied who can’t remember things. I’m pretty good at keeping “book only” and “show only” stuff separate, so I don’t think I’ve ever let a “book only” thing slip that might come into the show later. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/443 "2014-05-13T23:50:37Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I thank you very much Angua. I never realized that Petyr Baelish was LittleFinger. You should probably stay in the other thread. Please. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/444 "2014-05-14T00:10:25Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think there are some Sullied in the non-spoiler thread. Where are they getting the idea that The Mountain will be a champion? He hasn’t been seen in ages and he’s supposed to be still out pillaging, isn’t he? Just because Oberyn wants to kill him doesn’t mean he’ll show up at the trial. The news that he had been recast for this season was common knowledge, the fact that he has not shown up yet made him an instant choice. There are plenty of sullied over on the no spoilers thread, but thats because where the only real discussion of the TV show takes place. Over here all we can talk about is what’s different from the books and what’s coming up next. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/445 "2014-05-14T08:12:58Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Shae’s going to die. > > Instead of being simply opportunistic like in the books, Shae is hurting Tyrion out of vengeance. Tyrion looked angry enough to kill someone this episode. Once he finds Shae with his father he’ll go overboard. I saw the episode only yesterday, and I agree. Shae’s dead already. Was Tyrion that hateful during his trial in the books? I don’t remember that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/446 "2014-05-14T10:49:58Z")
I now think that there might be a big reveal during the last episode : everything Shae did was an act (shocking wrt the expectations of viewers, but it’s not like the show makers have an issue with shocking viewers), she says so to Tyrion, he kills her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/447 "2014-05-14T11:18:11Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > Keep in mind, though, that the show has not yet called Oberyn the “Red Viper”. People who only watch the show and haven’t heard much about the character from book readers wouldn’t necessarily know that “The Viper & The Mountain” refers to Oberyn Martell and, aside from the trailer for next week, there hasn’t been a mention of the Mountain in reference to the trial yet either. For savvy non-readers who saw the season trailers, it might be pretty clear that the Mountain is taking part in a duel with spectators. Sounds like a trial by combat! ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/448 "2014-05-14T17:16:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I saw the episode only yesterday, and I agree. Shae’s dead already. > > Was Tyrion that hateful during his trial in the books? I don’t remember that. You can read the book speech [here](http://imgur.com/a/jKTDi). The book doesn’t mention his anger, and Tyrion is a character that normally keeps his cool when he’s mistreated. He also stayed cool when he was faced with a similar unjust trial at the Vale. When I read the books I did not notice that Tyrion was angrier than usual. Dinklage’s interpretation is much better than how I imagined it. You can clearly see motive for murder from his performance. When I read the passage I completely missed how much more this trial upset Tyrion than anything else that’s happened to him. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/449 "2014-05-14T17:44:16Z")
Yeah, I’ve been the one saying they have to back off on the murder to keep him in character, but I have to say that after what we saw in the trial, I think they can pull it off. Peter Dinklage did a great job of showing a Tyrion utterly exhausted and cynical and angry. He’s ready to snap. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/450 "2014-05-14T17:54:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, I’ve been the one saying they have to back off on the murder to keep him in character, but I have to say that after what we saw in the trial, I think they can pull it off. Peter Dinklage did a great job of showing a Tyrion utterly exhausted and cynical and angry. He’s ready to snap. Agreed. They’re doing a fantastic job with converting everything to a visual medium. The only thing I really missed was Shae’s line about “he made me call him ‘my giant of Lannister’”. That one really hit hard and was the most humiliating thing for Tyrion, and I wish they hadn’t cut it out. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/451 "2014-05-14T18:00:20Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > … > The only thing I really missed was Shae’s line about “he made me call him ‘my giant of Lannister’”. That one really hit hard and was the most humiliating thing for Tyrion, and I wish they hadn’t cut it out. Agreed. I believe that’s why everyone in the crowd was cracking up. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/452 "2014-05-14T19:33:51Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The only thing I really missed was Shae’s line about “he made me call him ‘my giant of Lannister’”. That one really hit hard and was the most humiliating thing for Tyrion, and I wish they hadn’t cut it out. Especially since that line is what triggers Tyrion to kill her in the book. I guess they will substitute with “my lion” or “I’m just a whore, remember?”, but I don’t think either works as well. Was very surprised that was left out. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/453 "2014-05-15T17:26:58Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > Was very surprised that was left out. But she never said it to him in the show, so it would come entirely out of nowhere. As you said, they had her call him “my lion,” instead. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/454 "2014-05-19T05:52:36Z")
So how pissed off is everyone that they changed the “Only Cat” line? I’m personally not surprised - I can’t remember anyone calling her Cat too often in the TV show. I’m starting to wonder more and more about how they’re going to handle the Battle for Castle Black. If memory serves me, when Jon returns to the wall after escaping the wildlings, there’s only about 10 guys still there, and Jon basically takes command for lack of any leadership. Alliser Thorne got sent away to Eastwatch or something and doesn’t return until later (in time for the vote for the new Commander). And the Battle is divided up between Ygritte’s band attacking from the south, and then the huge assault from north of the Wall by Mance and company (which Stannis arrives to stop). I’m wondering if they might just combine the two fights and have Ygritte and Mance’s groups show up simultaneously, and if Alliser Thorne dies in the battle. (And if the producers thought 10 crows holding off the wildlings was ridiculous so they upped their numbers). Either that or they might do Ygritte this season, then save Mance’s invasion for the start of next season. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/455 "2014-05-19T07:27:28Z")
I just want to see Janos Slynt’s execution. Can that be brought forward. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/456 "2014-05-19T10:42:52Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > So how pissed off is everyone that they changed the “Only Cat” line? I’m personally not surprised - I can’t remember anyone calling her Cat too often in the TV show. > > I’m starting to wonder more and more about how they’re going to handle the Battle for Castle Black. If memory serves me, when Jon returns to the wall after escaping the wildlings, there’s only about 10 guys still there, and Jon basically takes command for lack of any leadership. Alliser Thorne got sent away to Eastwatch or something and doesn’t return until later (in time for the vote for the new Commander). And the Battle is divided up between Ygritte’s band attacking from the south, and then the huge assault from north of the Wall by Mance and company (which Stannis arrives to stop). > > I’m wondering if they might just combine the two fights and have Ygritte and Mance’s groups show up simultaneously, and if Alliser Thorne dies in the battle. (And if the producers thought 10 crows holding off the wildlings was ridiculous so they upped their numbers). Either that or they might do Ygritte this season, then save Mance’s invasion for the start of next season. I’ve heard that episode 9 will be bigger than Blackwater, so I’m pretty sure both battles are in that episode. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/457 "2014-05-19T14:20:53Z")
I presume so. The series tends to compress the events of the books. Just noticed that Burn Gorman, who was odious mutineer leader Karl Tanner on _GOT_, is now playing a British Army officer on the Revolutionary War spy drama _Turn_ on AMC: [http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cogman1.jpg](http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cogman1.jpg) [![](https://64.media.tumblr.com/a10b89585f163b087c75eeb9284bb1b0/tumblr_n4yw2k2G651rihcn1o1_1280.jpg) ](https://64.media.tumblr.com/a10b89585f163b087c75eeb9284bb1b0/tumblr_n4yw2k2G651rihcn1o1_1280.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/458 "2014-05-19T17:21:38Z")
OK, why doesn’t Mance Rayder just go through one of the undefended castles in the wall? Also, what do wildlings eat? They don’t seem to have agriculture and hunting would not sustain that many people in such a barren area, especially gathered together as an army. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/459 "2014-05-19T17:25:10Z")
The undefended castles did seal their tunnels i believe. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/460 "2014-05-19T18:29:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I just want to see Janos Slynt’s execution. Can that be brought forward. That reminds me… Janos has been around the whole time too. The election of the new Commander is gonna be really weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=24)