# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/501 "2014-05-22T21:47:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I think what he means, although (if any of you haven’t had the pleasure yet) he has a bizarre and belligerent enough position on this issue that I don’t really want to think about it too much, is that he posted a book spoiler in a thread that had TV spoilers, and people told him that, you know, they didn’t want him to do that. > > Then he started a few threads about it or whatever. It makes him kind of mad and he calls the TV watchers illiterates even though probably more than half have already read the books. Oh. I remember that thread. I think you should let that shit go, **Dr**. As a medical professional you should know that holding on to so much bitterness over something so trivial can be detrimental to your health. Unless you are actually seeking Deth. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/502 "2014-05-23T06:07:14Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You posted a huge spoiler in a no spoiler thread and then insult the people who complain? how big a dick are you? **Mod Note:** **DigitalC** , if you need to throw insults at posters, take it to the Pit. This is out of line for Cafe Society. Gukumatz Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/503 "2014-05-23T16:57:33Z")
Looks like we’re getting the Dorne story lines ([Characters leaked for Game of Thrones season 5, with new details - Winter is Coming](http://winteriscoming.net/2014/05/23/characters-confirmed-game-thrones-season-5-new-details/)). This is the point where the writers of the show really need to do a good job. The first four seasons could be pretty much straight up adaptations and be good television. The next two at a minimum need to be changed a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/504 "2014-05-23T17:01:22Z")
There was no chance we weren’t getting the Dorne storyline. They are already catching up to the books, cutting all that out would’ve left them almost nothing for the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/505 "2014-05-23T17:27:10Z")
But nothing happens! A big ole busted revenge plot. Myrcella gets her face smashed. I hate this johnny-come-very-lately subplot. But I can see how the whole series will end. Dany dies of mad cow disease. Jon is already dead. Stannis turns to stone while trying to bone the Red Witch. Tommen dies of hemophilia because he’s so inbred. And the fat fuck on the Dornish throne wins the throne by default. Where he rules all shitty, just like everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/506 "2014-05-23T19:08:42Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > But nothing happens! A big ole busted revenge plot. Myrcella gets her face smashed. > I hate this johnny-come-very-lately subplot. Yeah the Dorne stuff is some of my least favorite in the series. The Red Viper, Dark Star, that prince who got roasted trying to steal a dragon, everyone from Dorne is over hyped and incompetent. And the Sand Snakes seem like they walked out of a Quentin Tarantino film. On the other hand, I might be one of the few people who is super stoked to see some Iron Islands local politics. I love the Iron Islands the way I loved Joffrey, they’re just the worst society ever. The Iron Islands are like if Mississippi merged with Iceland to form a new country which based its constitution heavily on Conan the Barbarian, and then everyone there forgot how to read. Victarion chapters are among my favorite in the series. Reading them is like stepping into the mind of The Incredible Hulk if he had recently found religion. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/507 "2014-05-23T19:50:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There was no chance we weren’t getting the Dorne storyline. They are already catching up to the books, cutting all that out would’ve left them almost nothing for the next few years. It still leaves them with almost nothing. Less happens in A Feast For Crows than in probably any 5 random chapters from A Storm of Swords. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/508 "2014-05-23T20:10:06Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > On the other hand, I might be one of the few people who is super stoked to see some Iron Islands local politics. I love the Iron Islands the way I loved Joffrey, they’re just the worst society ever. The Iron Islands are like if Mississippi merged with Iceland to form a new country which based its constitution heavily on Conan the Barbarian, and then everyone there forgot how to read. Y’know, I wasn’t into them before, but after reading this, they might be my new fav. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/509 "2014-05-23T20:28:56Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > On the other hand, I might be one of the few people who is super stoked to see some Iron Islands local politics. I love the Iron Islands the way I loved Joffrey, they’re just the worst society ever. The Iron Islands are like if Mississippi merged with Iceland to form a new country which based its constitution heavily on Conan the Barbarian, and then everyone there forgot how to read. They’re amazing. House Greyjoy’s words are “We Do Not Sow,” as if being proud of the obvious flaw inherent in your path to socioeconomic sustainability somehow is going to prevent it from crippling you. It’s like if the Starks had banners that said “We’ll Believe You No Matter What You Tell Us.” Or the Lannisters’ words were “We’re So Awesome We’ll Fuck Each Other Instead of our Spouse.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/510 "2014-05-23T20:34:44Z")
The heralds charge 'way too much for mottos that long. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/511 "2014-05-24T05:09:22Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > They’re amazing. House Greyjoy’s words are “We Do Not Sow,” as if being proud of the obvious flaw inherent in your path to socioeconomic sustainability somehow is going to prevent it from crippling you. It’s like if the Starks had banners that said “We’ll Believe You No Matter What You Tell Us.” Or the Lannisters’ words were “We’re So Awesome We’ll Fuck Each Other Instead of our Spouse.” Exactly, how could one not love a people who openly and zealously disdain labor and commerce? **Balon:** “What’s this now Theon, you engaged in a mutually beneficial exchange of goods and services? I HAVE NO SON!” There’s not a single non Ironborn person in Westeros or Essos who think these backwards yokels have a chance at taking on the mainland in the long term. Yet the Ironborn, utilizing extreme arrogance brought about via extreme ignorance, have managed to repeatedly wreak havoc on the best laid plans of their societal superiors by behaving in a manner so profoundly stupid and obviously against their own self interest that wiser men are consistently unable to predict their actions. And that, sadly yet hilariously, is an excellent example of why people often describe **ASOIAF** as “realistic.” ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/512 "2014-05-24T06:46:37Z")
Have there not been cultures whose economy was mainly based on raiding more productive societies? ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/513 "2014-05-24T06:51:25Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think the toilet will be there, since we’ve never heard about how Tywin is so rich he shits gold. I suspect it will be basically unchanged otherwise. It’s far too sacred a part of ASoIaF to muck with. I think Bronn made a comment about Lannisters (not Tywin in particular) shitting gold during one of his talks with Jaime during training. I agree that the plotline I’m looking forward to the most is the politics of the Iron Islands, and seeing Euron, Victarion, Aeron Damphair, etc. I think the Dorne plot is workable, though it could use some tidying up. Dany’s is going to be dreadfully boring and full of characters with unmemorable names. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/514 "2014-05-24T07:17:38Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Have there not been cultures whose economy was mainly based on raiding more productive societies? Even the Vikings, the obvious role model here, were _primarily_ farmers and traders. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/515 "2014-05-24T07:19:51Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Have there not been cultures whose economy was mainly based on raiding more productive societies? Yes there have. Sorry if my post wasn’t clear, I meant that it is sad and hilarious that there are idiot assholes like the Ironborn in the real world. The Iron Islanders are obviously vaguely inspired by the Vikings. I recall seeing an interview where Martin mentioned they were specifically inspired by raiders who settled on islands off the coast of Scotland. The concept of referring to living a life entirely sustained by raiding as “The Old Way” comes from Ancient Greece. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/516 "2014-05-24T16:18:24Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Yes there have. Can you name one? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/517 "2014-05-24T16:31:42Z")
The Iron Islands have mines and even a few farmers. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/518 "2014-05-24T17:16:15Z")
Yeah the Ironborn talk a big game but they can’t have been doing all that much successful raiding since the Targs subjugated them. Which makes their whole attitude even more hilarious. **MrDibble** I suppose it depends on how broad or narrow one’s definition of culture is. I would say there have at least been subcultures whose economy was heavily (but obviously ever entirely) based on raiding. Scandinavians during the Viking Age who settled in the Northern Isles of Scotland would have been more dependent on raiding than those who lived in Norway, but you’re absolutely right that they would have still done plenty of farming, fishing, trading etc. I think another good example would be pirates and their bases (like Nassau in the Bahamas or St Mary’s off Madagascar) during the Golden Age of Piracy. These communities, though relatively briefly lived, certainly developed their own distinctive culture or subculture. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/519 "2014-05-24T17:58:12Z")
“We do not sow” isn’t the motto of all the iron born, only the Greyjoys. Some of them do sow. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/520 "2014-05-24T19:53:43Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > “We do not sow” isn’t the motto of all the iron born, only the Greyjoys. Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=27)