# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/541 "2014-06-02T14:49:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Uh, they get told Lisa is dead and they leave? i thought that was obvious. Some of the unsullied are apparently anxious to see Arya and Sansa meeting… so maybe not as obvious :D. The show writers apparently are enjoying these “near misses” - Bran & Jon and now Arya & Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/542 "2014-06-02T15:11:12Z")
Jesus. I knew how that fight was going to end, but I was holding my breath. I thought nothing would be be worse than watching the Red Wedding, but Oberyn’s death was pretty gruesome. Was Brown Ben’s betrayal ever explored further, or was it as simple as he’s a sellsword and did it for gold, full stop? I feel like the only betrayals that actually count so far are the witch lady’s and Jorah’s, because those were really deep betrayals. The other people weren’t a huge surprise, were they? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/543 "2014-06-02T15:19:30Z")
Gold and he thought Daenerys was going to lose. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/544 "2014-06-02T16:11:58Z")
Although Daenarys took it very personally, Plumm wasn’t much of a betrayal, considering she originally paid him off to break his contract and join her. Him doing it again isn’t much of a surprise to anyone but her. Xaro also wasn’t really a betrayal, as she rejected his offers of forming an alliance. How can someone betray you if you refused to join with them? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/545 "2014-06-02T16:44:21Z")
Dany’s storyline could have been livened up by the presence of Strong Belwas, but noooooooo… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/546 "2014-06-02T17:11:49Z")
My husband yelled at the TV for a long bit about there being enough brother/sister bomchickawawa going on, there was no reason for Grey “No Worm” Worm and his sister the interpreter to be sexing it up. I, myself, don’t remember that they were brother and sister in the book. Did they mention on the show that they came from the same country? I think I vaguely remember that. In any event, I assured hubby that we won’t be seeing any doggie-style action like we did with the Lannisters early on because, well, the “No-Worm” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/547 "2014-06-02T17:57:12Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Oberyn dominates even more in the book. None of that being kicked or tossed or having his spear chopped in half. > > Theon, Dany, Brienne, and Sansa are all in book 4 or later territory. It’s unclear in the book whether Oberyn dies because of ‘stupid gloating’ or just bad luck. His spear impales the Mountain and pins him down, so he has to get within striking distance to deliver the coup de grace with a sword , and that allows the Mountain to knock him off his feet and kill him. I suppose his best strategy would simply have been to stand off to the side and let Clegane bleed to death, or maybe dance around hacking at his feet and head while making sure he avoided his arms. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/548 "2014-06-02T18:09:35Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I, myself, don’t remember that they were brother and sister in the book. I think she has a brother in the unsullied, but Grey Worm isn’t that brother. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/549 "2014-06-02T19:12:22Z")
Yes, the interpreter and Grey Worm aren’t related, as far as we know. The composition of the bathing scene was a little odd. At first Grey Worm and some other dudes were together, and he saw the interpreter and some other women downstream (or upstream?) in his line of sight. Then it seemed that he had left the group of men and was the only one who could see the women. Had he done some swimming? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/550 "2014-06-02T19:23:14Z")
I think he swam underwater. And we never did get the answer as to whether the unsullied had all their parts completely removed or if just the testes were taken. One clue though is that we do know that Varys had his stuff completely cut off, so if that was normal practice… And I do recall in the book that Oberyn got careless at the end and died needlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/551 "2014-06-02T19:47:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think he swam underwater. And we never did get the answer as to whether the unsullied had all their parts completely removed or if just the testes were taken. One clue though is that we do know that Varys had his stuff completely cut off, so if that was normal practice… > > And I do recall in the book that Oberyn got careless at the end and died needlessly. Kraznys states (IIRC) that unlike some eunuchs the unsullied have ‘everything’ cut off. Then again, GRRM makes it clear he’s not above lying to make a sale. Oberyn states before his fight that using a spear is the only way to counter the Mountain’s reach, and by the end of the fight his spear is broken (and the sharp end is in the Mountain’s belly). ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/552 "2014-06-02T20:34:32Z")
Well, that fight scene was fucking horrifying – maybe even more so than on the page. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/553 "2014-06-03T00:53:15Z")
I haven’t read the books but I spoiled myself for the fight and I am glad I did or I might have had a heart attack. Did the Mountain crush his head with his hands in the book? Is that even remotely possible? What kind of strength would that take? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/554 "2014-06-03T01:12:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I haven’t read the books but I spoiled myself for the fight and I am glad I did or I might have had a heart attack. > > Did the Mountain crush his head with his hands in the book? Is that even remotely possible? What kind of strength would that take? No, after he gouged the eyes he destroyed his face with punches. No head explody business, end result was probably similar though. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/555 "2014-06-03T01:13:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Uh, they get told Lisa is dead and they leave? i thought that was obvious. Well, there’s two issues with that. One is that being told that Lysa is dead begs the obvious follow up question - “okay, well, who’s in charge?” since the Vale might still be well the best place for her - if they’re still feeling loyal to the Arryns/Tullys. And since the powers that be know they’ve got Sansa and are going to protect her, a message sent to Bronze Yohn for example of “hey, Arya Stark showed up here” would obviously be met with positivity. Even if the Hound and Arya immediately decided to leave, we’re to think that all those guardsmen would just let them be on their way? I find it hard to believe that they’d just let them leave - I would hope that the guardsmen, even if they don’t believe it’s Arya Stark, would still take her into custody and bring it to the attention of their bosses and at least investigate. > [@Biggirl](#): > > The Unsullied think The Mountain survived the fight. I’d like to correct them but 1) no book knowledge and b) who knows what the show will do? Hell, the non-book reader I saw it with thought the Mountain died right then and there on the spot (as opposed to just collasping/resting). I do wonder if they’ll keep the poison… I think there was a shot that looked like someone applying poison to the weapon, but they didn’t really make it a point of the fight (and if it didn’t affect the fight, why would Oberyn bother? He doesn’t seem like a guy who even conceived of dying). Still, FrankenGregor seems like too good a plot point to pass up… but having Gregor stay alive and whole also makes the possible future Cleganebowl more interesting, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/556 "2014-06-03T02:18:42Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I haven’t read the books but I spoiled myself for the fight and I am glad I did or I might have had a heart attack. > > Did the Mountain crush his head with his hands in the book? Is that even remotely possible? What kind of strength would that take? It’d take around 500 lbs, apparently. [Performance analysis of the protective effects of bicycle helmets during impact and crush tests in pediatric skull models in: Journal of Neurosurgery: Pediatrics Volume 10 Issue 6 (2012) Journals](http://thejns.org/doi/abs/10.3171/2012.8.PEDS12116?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/557 "2014-06-03T03:08:23Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > …I do wonder if they’ll keep the poison… I think there was a shot that looked like someone applying poison to the weapon, but they didn’t really make it a point of the fight… Could be, or his squire might just’ve been sharpening/polishing the blade. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/558 "2014-06-03T13:15:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Could be, or his squire might just’ve been sharpening/polishing the blade. There were a couple plot points in the book that the film missed out on re: the Viper and Mountain. 1. The poison is an important one- as we know , Oberyn studied poisons at the Citadel (and admits that he himself might have been a logical suspect in killing Joffrey). It also adds to the moral ambiguity of the story, and makes his revenge on the Mountain even sweeter (ie the mountain does a drawn out, gruesome death through poisoning). 2. in the book, the Mountain’s ‘confession’ is actually an important plot point. Tywin has no intention of handing him over to Oberyn, and plans to blame the crimes against Elia and her children on another Lannister knight who’s conveniently dead (Roose Bolton, iirc, fed him to a bear at Harrenhal). Clegane’s boast as he kills Oberyn shoots that plan to hell. 3. Oberyn is wildly popular with the common people in Dorne, and as the start of A Feast for Crows tells us, his death inflames popular outrage at the Lannisters. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/559 "2014-06-03T13:42:28Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Hell, the non-book reader I saw it with thought the Mountain died right then and there on the spot (as opposed to just collasping/resting). I do wonder if they’ll keep the poison… I think there was a shot that looked like someone applying poison to the weapon, but they didn’t really make it a point of the fight (and if it didn’t affect the fight, why would Oberyn bother? He doesn’t seem like a guy who even conceived of dying). Still, FrankenGregor seems like too good a plot point to pass up… but having Gregor stay alive and whole also makes the possible future Cleganebowl more interesting, I’d say. The HBO behind the scenes featurette did mention that he was poisoned. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/560 "2014-06-03T15:48:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Did the Mountain crush his head with his hands in the book? Is that even remotely possible? What kind of strength would that take? As said, it was just two punches in the book. I do think the Mountain could crush someone’s skull, though, canonically. Due to actual reality and human physiology, there are limits to what can be put on the screen. The actor who plays the Mountain now is, IIRC, something like 6’ 8" … _and he’s much too small to play the part as written_. From the ASOIAF wiki: > [@](#): > > Gregor Clegane is well known for his size, cruelty, and prowess in battle. Gregor is extremely tall (he is close to eight feet in height). He has “massive shoulders and arms thick as the trunk of small trees.” Gregor weighs over thirty stone (420 lbs), nearly all of it muscle, making him near inhumanly strong. Gregor’s strength allows him to wield a six-foot, two-handed greatsword with just one hand, giving him enormous reach while still wielding a shield. Such is the power of Gregor’s strength that he has been known to hack men in half with just a single blow. > > In battle he wears the heaviest, thickest plate armor in the Seven Kingdoms. His armor is so heavy that no ordinary man would be able to move, let alone fight effectively while wearing it, making him nigh-invincible in combat. So, something like [this](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/d/d1/Mark_Evans_GregorClegane.jpg). I have to trouble believing that such a person could crush a skull. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=29)