# Game of Thrones Season 4: \[Fully And Openly Spoiled - See Sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175 "2014-04-02T16:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/561 "2014-06-03T16:00:25Z")
Yeah, book-Mountain, if transplanted to, say, the Malazan world, would be a pureblood Toblakai, just on height and strength alone. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/562 "2014-06-03T18:14:03Z")
Rumor has it that episode 9 will be 100% the battle at the wall. Nothing else until episode 10. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/563 "2014-06-03T18:18:14Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Rumor has it that episode 9 will be 100% the battle at the wall. Nothing else until episode 10. That makes sense, actually. Ep 9 has almost always been either epic battles or shocking murders. Tyrion’s flight and the collateral damage thereof isn’t really epic or shocking, just really, really satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/564 "2014-06-03T18:21:44Z")
In other questions, why do people over on the Unsullied threads ask questions that require either book knowledge or total speculation? > [@](#): > > Do we know why Tywin ordered the killing of the Martell girl? Doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would benefit Tywin Lannister. Yes, we do (or rather we know that he didn’t specifically, but carelessly didn’t tell the Mountain NOT to, since Elia Martell was actually nothing as far as the dynastic extinction Tywin wanted), but we know that because of something that’s forbidden to even be mentioned in that thread… ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/565 "2014-06-03T18:31:46Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Rumor has it that episode 9 will be 100% the battle at the wall. Nothing else until episode 10. I could see splitting it into two though, with the 9th episode partially involving the initial wave of Thenns and gingers. Based on past experiences, the 9th is the “big” episode though. > [@jayjay](#): > > In other questions, why do people over on the Unsullied threads ask questions that require either book knowledge or total speculation? > > Yes, we do (or rather we know that he didn’t specifically, but carelessly didn’t tell the Mountain NOT to, since Elia Martell was actually nothing as far as the dynastic extinction Tywin wanted), but we know that because of something that’s forbidden to even be mentioned in that thread… I feel like I could speculate without spoiling, although I could possibly do this unconsciously. The real answer is basically common sense, although I don’t know if Elia was necessary as long as her kids are dead. Kind of like a criminal who thinks he might be recorded by telling a minion to “take care of the situation” or “get the stuff.” As in get it done quickly, and I’m not going to specifiy _how_. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/566 "2014-06-03T19:06:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > In other questions, why do people over on the Unsullied threads ask questions that require either book knowledge or total speculation? > > Yes, we do (or rather we know that he didn’t specifically, but carelessly didn’t tell the Mountain NOT to, since Elia Martell was actually nothing as far as the dynastic extinction Tywin wanted), but we know that because of something that’s forbidden to even be mentioned in that thread… Because speculating is fun. Same reason there are 40 page speculation threads on [westeros.org](http://westeros.org) for what will happen in Winds of Winter. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/567 "2014-06-03T19:11:03Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Because speculating is fun. Same reason there are 40 page speculation threads on [westeros.org](http://westeros.org) for what will happen in Winds of Winter. I know, I know…but it’s so HARD for know-it-alls like me to refrain from posting the REAL answers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/568 "2014-06-03T19:35:09Z")
I think Ellaria Sand’s scream may have been the single best dramatic scream I have ever seen anywhere. She really, fully portrayed the utter horror of what she was seeing and the love she had for her paramour. It makes me sad to think that we all were too busy being horrified to catch it. Also the beetle story. I’m not getting the import. We talked before about the lack of foreshadowing the manner of Tywin’s death. No one has mentioned him pooping gold. But when LF was sending Robin off, he did mention that people sometimes die squatting over their chamber poets. . . ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/569 "2014-06-03T19:37:48Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > In other questions, why do people over on the Unsullied threads ask questions that require either book knowledge or total speculation? Chiefly because most of them are not really unsullied. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/570 "2014-06-03T19:41:12Z")
I’m really interested in the differences between the books and the show in Littlefinger’s handling of Lysa’s murder. In the book, he is completely in charge of the aftermath, down to forcing a confession out of the bard and manipulating the lords of the Vale while he works his influence on Sansa. He’s always a step ahead and spinning his plans in the background. But in the show, he doesn’t seem to have worked out anything at all with Sansa, which is very unlike the master handler we know. If she had told the full truth, he’d have been completely screwed. When she looked over the old lady’s shoulder at him, I expected there to be some acknowledgement that she had sung the tune he had composed, but the conversation between them afterwards showed that it was entirely her own initiative to tell a story that skated the truth but left him seemingly innocent – and her identity exposed to others, regardless of how much they promised not to tell anyone else. I’m curious as to what this might imply about the future of these two characters in the show; will we see Sansa evolving in savviness as Littlefinger seems to be out of his depth now that he’s a more open player of the game? I dunno, but I do trust the show runners to keep even the book readers on their toes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/571 "2014-06-03T19:58:05Z")
The whole scene with the Vale Lords has me rethinking how I imagine ASOIAF playing out. For all of their differences at the beginning, Sansa and Arya are approaching the same point on converging paths. Arya is going to become the mistress of shadows and assassination, and Sansa looks to be working on becoming the mistress of political manipulation. Both very important positions in the Game of Thrones. The whole thing might not just come down to Jon and Dany and the dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/572 "2014-06-03T20:00:39Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think Ellaria Sand’s scream may have been the single best dramatic scream I have ever seen anywhere. She really, fully portrayed the utter horror of what she was seeing and the love she had for her paramour. > > It makes me sad to think that we all were too busy being horrified to catch it. > > Also the beetle story. I’m not getting the import. > > We talked before about the lack of foreshadowing the manner of Tywin’s death. No one has mentioned him pooping gold. But when LF was sending Robin off, he did mention that people sometimes die squatting over their chamber poets. . . Agreed as to the actress and her reaction. That seemed heartfelt - very powerful and well-done - esp. after his assurance that he would never leave her. I took the beetle story to be (a) a nice, quiet, incongruous moment between two brothers trying not to talk about what must otherwise be very much on both their minds, and (b) an implicit comment on the indifference of the gods as to who lives and who dies. As someone noted upthread, I think Bronn did say something about the smallfolks’ jest that Tywin shat gold. Good catch about LF’s comment. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/573 "2014-06-03T20:04:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The whole scene with the Vale Lords has me rethinking how I imagine ASOIAF playing out. For all of their differences at the beginning, Sansa and Arya are approaching the same point on converging paths. Arya is going to become the mistress of shadows and assassination, and Sansa looks to be working on becoming the mistress of political manipulation. Both very important positions in the Game of Thrones. The whole thing might not just come down to Jon and Dany and the dragons. Jojen does say something like “the time of the wolves will come again.” Although maybe he literally means roving bands of wolves will eat everyone. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/574 "2014-06-03T20:05:22Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Also the beetle story. I’m not getting the import. It’s about the futility of assuming there is a comprehensible reason for death, especially when you live in a world where gods decide who lives and who dies based on combat between two other people. Tyrion is saying that the gods are like his cousin, mindlessly smashing away lives for reasons none of us can understand. Alternative answer: it was a metaphor for George RR Martin himself. > [@](#): > > We talked before about the lack of foreshadowing the manner of Tywin’s death. No one has mentioned him pooping gold. But when LF was sending Robin off, he did mention that people sometimes die squatting over their chamber poets. . . Littlefinger referenced dying at the dinner table, in bed, and on a chamber pot. In other words: Joffrey, Shae, Tywin. (Also, Bronn mentioned shitting gold when sparring with Jaime, I believe.) ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/575 "2014-06-04T00:05:09Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think Ellaria Sand’s scream may have been the single best dramatic scream I have ever seen anywhere. She really, fully portrayed the utter horror of what she was seeing and the love she had for her paramour. > > It makes me sad to think that we all were too busy being horrified to catch it. > > Also the beetle story. I’m not getting the import. > > We talked before about the lack of foreshadowing the manner of Tywin’s death. No one has mentioned him pooping gold. But when LF was sending Robin off, he did mention that people sometimes die squatting over their chamber poets. . . Ellaria’s scream was absolutely ‘Real Life Horrified’ as opposed to ‘Hollywood Horrified’. It was _real_ and visceral in a way that really made you feel the horror of the scene. The beetle scene wasn’t in the books, but honestly I rather liked the addition. The books _say_ that Jaime and Tyrion liked each other, but they don’t really show much of their relationship, and I like the way the show fleshes it out a bit more. Also, the show did foreshadow Tywin’s death back when Tyrion is telling Bronn and Shae about Tysha, and Bronn said “I would have killed the man who did that to me.” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/576 "2014-06-04T03:07:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …The composition of the bathing scene was a little odd. At first Grey Worm and some other dudes were together, and he saw the interpreter and some other women downstream (or upstream?) in his line of sight. Then it seemed that he had left the group of men and was the only one who could see the women. Had he done some swimming? I thought it was odd that Missandei, the Queen’s chief handmaiden, is bathing in a river outside of the city instead of a bath in the palace. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/577 "2014-06-05T01:18:44Z")
Does anyone think that wildfire could destroy The Others? We know Valyrian steel and dragonglass can; presumably dragon fire will too. I’ve always thought the caches of wildfire in KL would be used in some kind of final blaze of glory by Cersei, but maybe that they’re a different kind of Chekov’s gun. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/578 "2014-06-05T01:37:43Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I’m really interested in the differences between the books and the show in Littlefinger’s handling of Lysa’s murder. In the book, he is completely in charge of the aftermath, down to forcing a confession out of the bard and manipulating the lords of the Vale while he works his influence on Sansa. He’s always a step ahead and spinning his plans in the background. But in the show, he doesn’t seem to have worked out anything at all with Sansa, which is very unlike the master handler we know. If she had told the full truth, he’d have been completely screwed. When she looked over the old lady’s shoulder at him, I expected there to be some acknowledgement that she had sung the tune he had composed, but the conversation between them afterwards showed that it was entirely her own initiative to tell a story that skated the truth but left him seemingly innocent – and her identity exposed to others, regardless of how much they promised not to tell anyone else. > > I’m curious as to what this might imply about the future of these two characters in the show; will we see Sansa evolving in savviness as Littlefinger seems to be out of his depth now that he’s a more open player of the game? I dunno, but I do trust the show runners to keep even the book readers on their toes. Yeah, I was mulling over this, and I disliked it because it really takes away another great scheme on the part of Littlefinger. That he planned out everything in advance - having the bard to pin it on, then using a secret insider to help him turn the Lords of the Vale on to his side - is pretty masterful. In the show, it feels like he hasn’t really planned it at all and just lucks out. OTOH, it gives Sansa some more power - there’s hints in the books that she’s starting to “get” the game but has yet to do anything on her own. As for the beetle story, count me in with the “didn’t get it” crowd. I mean, I get the idea behind it, I just don’t think it was worth taking up time in the show for. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/579 "2014-06-05T01:39:53Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > Does anyone think that wildfire could destroy The Others? We know Valyrian steel and dragonglass can; presumably dragon fire will too. I’ve always thought the caches of wildfire in KL would be used in some kind of final blaze of glory by Cersei, but maybe that they’re a different kind of Chekov’s gun. How do we know Valyrian steel can? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175/580 "2014-06-05T02:08:36Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Yeah, I was mulling over this, and I disliked it because it really takes away another great scheme on the part of Littlefinger. That he planned out everything in advance - having the bard to pin it on, then using a secret insider to help him turn the Lords of the Vale on to his side - is pretty masterful. In the show, it feels like he hasn’t really planned it at all and just lucks out. OTOH, it gives Sansa some more power - there’s hints in the books that she’s starting to “get” the game but has yet to do anything on her own. I think Sansa’s arc in the book is going to lead to her overtaking LF somehow. That’s the only reason I can think of that would explain why the TV show sacrificed LF’s grandmaster level manipulation. He’s going down somehow and all his scheming won’t matter in the great scheme of things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-season-4-fully-and-openly-spoiled-see-sticky/685175.md?page=30)